Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[IllinoisState]

If youre replacing MSU which is what was mentioned you will have to add a football school. Most mentioned above dont even sponsor football unless its non-scholorship. Lindenwood and SEMO the only 2???

St. Thomas might be willing to add scholarships. Losing Missouri State would bring the MVFC to 10 and maybe that would be better than the current 11.

[E-Villan]

If youre replacing MSU which is what was mentioned you will have to add a football school. Most mentioned above dont even sponsor football unless its non-scholorship. Lindenwood and SEMO the only 2???

Why? Isn't the MVFC currently at 11. Losing MSU would only put them back at 10.

Again, is it fact that we asked NKU to increase their financial commitments and they said no? Their basketball budget is $2.3MM, which is ahead of a couple and not that far off from the league average. Certainly not big enough of a gap to not warrant making the jump. The facilities don't indicate a school afraid of investing in athletics.

Why Lipscomb? Nothing against them, but I don't think we would want to double down in Nashville. We're only going to get ignored twice by doing that. I would put Bellarmine in that spot. You're still going to be 2nd fiddle to Louisville, but they do get some support and coverage in Louisville, more than Belmont gets in Nashville.

[TBS_20]

If youre replacing MSU which is what was mentioned you will have to add a football school. Most mentioned above dont even sponsor football unless its non-scholorship. Lindenwood and SEMO the only 2???

Why? Isn't the MVFC currently at 11. Losing MSU would only put them back at 10.

I thought with the loss of western we go down to 10 but i could be wrong and i havent looked it up.

[IllinoisState]

If youre replacing MSU which is what was mentioned you will have to add a football school. Most mentioned above dont even sponsor football unless its non-scholorship. Lindenwood and SEMO the only 2???

Why? Isn't the MVFC currently at 11. Losing MSU would only put them back at 10.

Again, is it fact that we asked NKU to increase their financial commitments and they said no? Their basketball budget is $2.3MM, which is ahead of a couple and not that far off from the league average. Certainly not big enough of a gap to not warrant making the jump. The facilities don't indicate a school afraid of investing in athletics.

Why Lipscomb? Nothing against them, but I don't think we would want to double down in Nashville. We're only going to get ignored twice by doing that. I would put Bellarmine in that spot. You're still going to be 2nd fiddle to Louisville, but they do get some support and coverage in Louisville, more than Belmont gets in Nashville.

I don't think we'll never know the facts because I don't either the MVC or the rejected schools will confirm this. It's worth trying again if they are a top choice at the time.

I had Bellarmine on my list originally, but since I mentioned them being added today I can only go off of their 4 D-I seasons and they just came off an 8 win season and have only 1 winning season.

Lipscomb because they are already in our footprint and have fairly sustained success and we have limited options for good teams.

[BCPanther]

If youre replacing MSU which is what was mentioned you will have to add a football school. Most mentioned above dont even sponsor football unless its non-scholorship. Lindenwood and SEMO the only 2???

Why? Isn't the MVFC currently at 11. Losing MSU would only put them back at 10.

I thought with the loss of western we go down to 10 but i could be wrong and i havent looked it up.

We're at 11 without Western.

You just have to make sure you stay at 6 outside of the Dakotas in case the Summit League has to pull the rip chord and add football to keep DI status. It's not likely that they'd have to but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

[ReZyNeZy]

You cannot force a prospective school to update arenas when the ARC still exists in the Valley. I could go more in depth as to WHY the ARC still exists in its current state, but that is a discussion for another time. To make a long story short, snooty board members didn't want to invest in athletics even after proven success. Aside from the top few MMs, you arent going to fill a 10k+ seat facility. The only conferences who have proven they can fill those consistently are the A-10, MW(Which is a defacto power conference with the PAC-12 death). The only time our arenas get filled is if the schools in question are performing well.

There is also the issue of a lot of our schools sharing a market space with 1 or multiple power conference schools.

Why go to a Drake basketball game when Iowa State is just a 45 min drive away.
Why attend a Valpo game when Notre Dame is a 45 min drive away.
Why attend a UIC game when Loyola is right there in the city, and Northwestern is about an hour away, or DePaul exists.

I would Include St. Thomas and Minnesota, but Minnesota has proven that the barn is probably on par with the ARC in terms of crappiness. We should be getting renderings on the replacement for the ARC next year.

Indiana State is able to draw fans because they are in the middle of nowhere Indiana. IU and Purdue are both 90+ min from Terre Heute.
Illinois State and Bradley share a market space as well in addition to UIC and Valpo, but in the case of VU and UIC, the Chicago market is already super oversaturated so they are left as bottom feeders, and VU is even more screwed as Purdue takes a lot of NWI kids and claims a lot of NWI fans, same as the Dame.

Unless you have proven multi-year success and multibid tournament bearths, you arent going to draw fans. There is a reason the MW and the A-10 can draw fans. They have proven they are successful, and "worth watching". If the MVC can get a good year where there are a few teams that can make the tournament, we can become the A-10, but with the portal in the state it is now, this is seeming more and more unlikely.

[E-Villan]

You cannot force a prospective school to update arenas when the ARC still exists in the Valley. I could go more in depth as to WHY the ARC still exists in its current state, but that is a discussion for another time. To make a long story short, snooty board members didn't want to invest in athletics even after proven success. Aside from the top few MMs, you arent going to fill a 10k+ seat facility. The only conferences who have proven they can fill those consistently are the A-10, MW(Which is a defacto power conference with the PAC-12 death). The only time our arenas get filled is if the schools in question are performing well.

There is also the issue of a lot of our schools sharing a market space with 1 or multiple power conference schools.

Why go to a Drake basketball game when Iowa State is just a 45 min drive away.
Why attend a Valpo game when Notre Dame is a 45 min drive away.
Why attend a UIC game when Loyola is right there in the city, and Northwestern is about an hour away, or DePaul exists.

I would Include St. Thomas and Minnesota, but Minnesota has proven that the barn is probably on par with the ARC in terms of crappiness. We should be getting renderings on the replacement for the ARC next year.

Indiana State is able to draw fans because they are in the middle of nowhere Indiana. IU and Purdue are both 90+ min from Terre Heute.
Illinois State and Bradley share a market space as well in addition to UIC and Valpo, but in the case of VU and UIC, the Chicago market is already super oversaturated so they are left as bottom feeders, and VU is even more screwed as Purdue takes a lot of NWI kids and claims a lot of NWI fans, same as the Dame.

Unless you have proven multi-year success and multibid tournament bearths, you arent going to draw fans. There is a reason the MW and the A-10 can draw fans. They have proven they are successful, and "worth watching". If the MVC can get a good year where there are a few teams that can make the tournament, we can become the A-10, but with the portal in the state it is now, this is seeming more and more unlikely.

I agree with your first sentence in regards to the sad state of Valpo's arena, but in the case of NKU, their arena would probably be top 4 at least as it sits currently.

I am not sure where you are going with the rest of this in terms of attendance. The A-10 is not a power conference, and your using them as an example in terms of attendance is pretty flawed. They only average a few hundred more fans across the board than us. They were 9th, we were 10th in average attendance. You take Dayton and their 13K average out of that and we go ahead. There are quite a few bottom feeders in the A-10 playing in front of 1K in Valpo-type gyms. As such, you take Valpo and UIC numbers out of our average and we also probably go ahead. Attendance really only seems to be a problem at these two schools. The rest of us are doing ok.

Prior to the departures of Creighton and Wichita, every school in this league was playing in front of respectable crowds. Loyola has never been a decent draw, and is still below many MVC teams. They aren't affecting UIC's attendance in the least. I also doubt too many people are not going to Valpo games because they are going to Notre Dame. Basically, most of your post seems like excuse making. There are plenty of examples in this league (Bradley, Evansville, SIU, Murray, Illinois State, etc) that have long histories of putting rears in the seats, even in down periods. To the point of this, NKU is currrently doubling the attendance of both Valpo and UIC. I see nothing in their current form that should keep them from the top of our expansion list.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

#1 - A replacement for Missouri St does not have to play football. 11 schools are voting and 6 of them have no affiliation with the MVFC. Also, the MVFC would be at a very convenient 10 teams anyway and the Dakotas probably prefer another MVC team isn't shoved down their throat.

#2 - The source behind NKU is Matt Brown on 1/4/22:
Matt Brown: "Northern Kentucky and UW-Milwaukee are not involved in this process. Both kicked the tires on it, neither could raise enough money."
OhioBoilermaker: "For facilities upgrades? How much money do they need?"
Matt Brown: "Not so much for that, but for increases in operational/scholarship spending in other sports. MVC asks schools to have a budget set aside to "buy" home games, something those programs, I was told, weren't able to commit to. Their basketball facilities are fine. It's the other stuff that catches up to you."

[ReZyNeZy]

I agree with your first sentence in regards to the sad state of Valpo's arena, but in the case of NKU, their arena would probably be top 4 at least as it sits currently.

I am not sure where you are going with the rest of this in terms of attendance. The A-10 is not a power conference, and your using them as an example in terms of attendance is pretty flawed. They only average a few hundred more fans across the board than us. They were 9th, we were 10th in average attendance. You take Dayton and their 13K average out of that and we go ahead. There are quite a few bottom feeders in the A-10 playing in front of 1K in Valpo-type gyms. As such, you take Valpo and UIC numbers out of our average and we also probably go ahead. Attendance really only seems to be a problem at these two schools. The rest of us are doing ok.

Prior to the departures of Creighton and Wichita, every school in this league was playing in front of respectable crowds. Loyola has never been a decent draw, and is still below many MVC teams. They aren't affecting UIC's attendance in the least. I also doubt too many people are not going to Valpo games because they are going to Notre Dame. Basically, most of your post seems like excuse making. There are plenty of examples in this league (Bradley, Evansville, SIU, Murray, Illinois State, etc) that have long histories of putting rears in the seats, even in down periods. To the point of this, NKU is currrently doubling the attendance of both Valpo and UIC. I see nothing in their current form that should keep them from the top of our expansion list.

I was making a comparison to a similar conference. Right we are the 9th and 10th respectively, but I dont think there was a single team in the conference that was able to pull 10k last season. ISU sold out games yes, but with the renovations, they dropped to below 10k. Dayton is an outlier yes, but they prove the point that the markets of our teams are diluted. I dont know if you ignored this statement, but I clearly stated that the 2 conferences outside of the power schools that have proven to be able to fill their large arenas. When comparing diluted markets, I explicitly only used Power schools and did not mention a mid major clash unless it was our own schools, or schools that can put butts in seats. I admit Loyola is a pretty crappy answer as they play in a HS gym, but the point still stands. Market dilution is going to be a factor in attendance.

Dayton is just about an hour away from the nearest power school being Cincy. Granted they share their market with Wright State and Miami Ohio, but Dayton takes the basketball coin over those schools and they would, naturally, pull more fans. Dayton is a school "Worth watching". VU and UIC are sandwiched between markets. UIC takes the chicago market, and VU has to compete with Chicago, ND and Purdue for fan support. As for failing to see why people would go to ND games. You would be surprised.

My post isnt excuse making. It is a commentary on the current topic. That being markets, expansion, and schools up for consideration. I merely am claiming that asking a school to increase their financial commitment and to upgrade their barn should be undergone with some hesitancy. NKU is competing in the Cincinnati market. Questions to be considered is, how diluted is the market? Is this school a "worth watching" school? How does this move benefit the MVC? I only displayed how dilluted markets, and making demands can impact the MVC as a whole.

Not every game is going to be a sell out, but teams need to fill at least 50% capacity on a weekly basis. Some of our schools have proven they cannot do that consistently (IE: UIC and VU)

Should NKU be considered, absolutely, they share a market with Cincy, a school without a current basketball focus, and their amenities are on par with Evansville, Bradley, and Indiana St. But other than them we should proceed with caution and take into account some key questions, and the league certainly shouldn't e making demands while there is a massive elephant standing in the room.

[TylerDurden]

I was making a comparison to a similar conference. Right we are the 9th and 10th respectively, but I dont think there was a single team in the conference that was able to pull 10k last season. ISU sold out games yes, but with the renovations, they dropped to below 10k. Dayton is an outlier yes, but they prove the point that the markets of our teams are diluted. I dont know if you ignored this statement, but I clearly stated that the 2 conferences outside of the power schools that have proven to be able to fill their large arenas. When comparing diluted markets, I explicitly only used Power schools and did not mention a mid major clash unless it was our own schools, or schools that can put butts in seats. I admit Loyola is a pretty crappy answer as they play in a HS gym, but the point still stands. Market dilution is going to be a factor in attendance.

Dayton is just about an hour away from the nearest power school being Cincy. Granted they share their market with Wright State and Miami Ohio, but Dayton takes the basketball coin over those schools and they would, naturally, pull more fans. Dayton is a school "Worth watching". VU and UIC are sandwiched between markets. UIC takes the chicago market, and VU has to compete with Chicago, ND and Purdue for fan support. As for failing to see why people would go to ND games. You would be surprised.

My post isnt excuse making. It is a commentary on the current topic. That being markets, expansion, and schools up for consideration. I merely am claiming that asking a school to increase their financial commitment and to upgrade their barn should be undergone with some hesitancy. NKU is competing in the Cincinnati market. Questions to be considered is, how diluted is the market? Is this school a "worth watching" school? How does this move benefit the MVC? I only displayed how dilluted markets, and making demands can impact the MVC as a whole.

Not every game is going to be a sell out, but teams need to fill at least 50% capacity on a weekly basis. Some of our schools have proven they cannot do that consistently (IE: UIC and VU)

Should NKU be considered, absolutely, they share a market with Cincy, a school without a current basketball focus, and their amenities are on par with Evansville, Bradley, and Indiana St. But other than them we should proceed with caution and take into account some key questions, and the league certainly shouldn't e making demands while there is a massive elephant standing in the room.

Valpo's issues have nothing to do with a diluted market. They're in the wrong league and they (we all) know it.