ORU discussing membership with MVC

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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby TylerDurden » October 26th, 2012, 1:09 pm

CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:I'm surprised some non-Bradley fans have them so high. Almost aghast at it actually. I say this with sincere honesty but sometimes I almost forget they are in this conference. They have a nice school academically. In fact I applied and wasn't accepted even. But what's going on with the love? This isn't bradleyfans or whatever, we can speak our minds here.

In terms of value. I put WSU, CU, and MSU in the top category. These are the conference bellcows. As they go the rest of the league goes. I then put Illinois State in that next grouping, just missing the others by a hair. Then UNI and SIUC. After that the Drakes, E'villes, ISUblue, Bradleys, and whatever else are all about the same to me. Maybe I put Drake a bit higher because I genuinely like them. But Bradely doesn't come anywhere near the top 5 unless we are talking about quality of education.


Not sure if serious...walking away slowly.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby Bluejay09Bear06 » October 26th, 2012, 1:09 pm

I'll go to bat for Bradley. They have had a rough stretch the past few years, but I am amazed by the resiliency of their fan base. Bradley has a rich basketball heritage and I believe that their fan support causes that program to have a very high ceiling in terms of return on investment, and I believe they are very much a valuable asset to the conference. They are also in one of the larger media markets in the conference. I think they would be a solid 3rd, but MSU is in a large, relatively untapped media market that has experienced explosive growth lately, and is also the largest student body in the Valley. Therefore, MSU just has a higher ceiling, in my opinion.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby DoubleJayAlum » October 26th, 2012, 1:23 pm

CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:I'm surprised some non-Bradley fans have them so high. Almost aghast at it actually. I say this with sincere honesty but sometimes I almost forget they are in this conference. They have a nice school academically. In fact I applied and wasn't accepted even. But what's going on with the love? This isn't bradleyfans or whatever, we can speak our minds here.

In terms of value. I put WSU, CU, and MSU in the top category. These are the conference bellcows. As they go the rest of the league goes. I then put Illinois State in that next grouping, just missing the others by a hair. Then UNI and SIUC. After that the Drakes, E'villes, ISUblue, Bradleys, and whatever else are all about the same to me. Maybe I put Drake a bit higher because I genuinely like them. But Bradely doesn't come anywhere near the top 5 unless we are talking about quality of education.


Well, Bradley is almost always a solid third in attendance, well above MSU, despite being a much smaller school.... I've never seen a good explanation why some of the big population schools (MSU, IlSU, UNI, SIU) don't draw better attendance numbers. Just getting students to go would push them past most schools.... How can you let Evansville outdraw you?

Frankly, I don't see how MSU is in the same category as Creighton and Wichita St.

Despite their relative successes in basketball and volleyball, I'd downgrade UNI for not having baseball or men's soccer. I'd hope that any future admit is required to play at least one of these two men's sports. I'd also like to see WSU add soccer as their is certainly a market for it.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby valleychamp » October 26th, 2012, 1:33 pm

DoubleJayAlum wrote:
CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:I'm surprised some non-Bradley fans have them so high. Almost aghast at it actually. I say this with sincere honesty but sometimes I almost forget they are in this conference. They have a nice school academically. In fact I applied and wasn't accepted even. But what's going on with the love? This isn't bradleyfans or whatever, we can speak our minds here.

In terms of value. I put WSU, CU, and MSU in the top category. These are the conference bellcows. As they go the rest of the league goes. I then put Illinois State in that next grouping, just missing the others by a hair. Then UNI and SIUC. After that the Drakes, E'villes, ISUblue, Bradleys, and whatever else are all about the same to me. Maybe I put Drake a bit higher because I genuinely like them. But Bradely doesn't come anywhere near the top 5 unless we are talking about quality of education.


Well, Bradley is almost always a solid third in attendance, well above MSU, despite being a much smaller school.... I've never seen a good explanation why some of the big population schools (MSU, IlSU, UNI, SIU) don't draw better attendance numbers. Just getting students to go would push them past most schools.... How can you let Evansville outdraw you?

Frankly, I don't see how MSU is in the same category as Creighton and Wichita St.

Despite their relative successes in basketball and volleyball, I'd downgrade UNI for not having baseball or men's soccer. I'd hope that any future admit is required to play at least one of these two men's sports. I'd also like to see WSU add soccer as their is certainly a market for it.


Why just baseball and soccer? Because they are important to you? There are a number of schools in this conference that don't sponsor track programs, baseball, tennis, swimming, golf, etc.

I like how you had to throw "relative success" in there as well. "Relative" to the rest of the conference, Who has been better in basketball and volleyball than UNI the last 10 years???

UNI has won conference titles/multiple conference titles in Volleyball, Basketball, Women's Basketball, Track, and Softball just in the last FIVE years in this conference. Plus the football dominance in the MVFC if you want to count that on the side.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby Pimpin » October 26th, 2012, 1:45 pm

ORU would fit well.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby jwa123 » October 26th, 2012, 2:01 pm

ORU???? I don't understand all of this love for ORU all of a sudden. I guess I am missing something as I don't see what value they bring. If ORU was to be added, that would bring the conference to eleven members. Is that the right number and if not then to whom should we look to add?

I'm not sure about our conference expansion. This is a bball conference not a football conference. Football conferences expand past ten members so they can have an "east vs west" or some other nomenclature so they can have a big payday with a final conference football championship playoff. The MVC is a basketball conference the last time I checked. I also don't understand why UNI is getting knocked by some. They have had a solid run over the last decade and arguably the signature NCAA tournament win our conference has had in quite sometime.

Some might say safety in numbers because you never know when CU and WSU will trot off to the A-10. Why don't we worry about that then if it should ever come to pass and if both get A-10 invites I say good for them! Personally I don't think that will ever happen because both schools are so far out of the A-10 footprint.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby DoubleJayAlum » October 26th, 2012, 2:06 pm

valleychamp wrote:Why just baseball and soccer? Because they are important to you? There are a number of schools in this conference that don't sponsor track programs, baseball, tennis, swimming, golf, etc.


No, because those two sports actually have the potential to generate some gross income. People generally aren't paying money in any real numbers to go to college golf matches (and I say that as someone who like to play golf), swimming, tennis, etc. Baseball and soccer also can garner TV coverage on occasion. Not so much for the other sports you listed.

valleychamp wrote:Plus the football dominance in the MVFC if you want to count that on the side.


What happens or doesn't happen in the MVFC isn't relevant when determining a schools value to the MVC. They are completely different conferences. If a school wants to field such a team, fine, but it does nothing to increase their relative value to the MVC and may even detract from it if it sucks dollars away from programs that actually do compete in the conference.
Last edited by DoubleJayAlum on October 26th, 2012, 2:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby Bluejay09Bear06 » October 26th, 2012, 2:08 pm

Jwa, I agree with you about ORU, and I also agree with you about UNI's basketball success. Their Sweet 16 run in 2010 was one of this conference's highlights of the past 10 years. However, in terms of value to the conference, I'm not so sure. It's a smallish school in a smaller market. Their success in basketball kept them above the bottom in my rankings, but the (unfortunate, in my opinion) emphasis placed on media markets and attendance kept them in the bottom three.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby valleychamp » October 26th, 2012, 2:25 pm

DoubleJayAlum wrote:No, because those two sports actually have the potential to generate some gross income. People generally aren't paying money in any real numbers to go to college golf matches (and I say that as someone who like to play golf), swimming, tennis, etc. Baseball and soccer also can garner TV coverage on occasion. Not so much for the other sports you listed.


Ok that may be true I really don't know, but still, the amount of dollars we are talking about here is pretty negligible. No school is getting in/outed by this conference due to soccer or baseball.

What happens or doesn't happen in the MVFC isn't relevant when determining a schools value to the MVC. They are completely different conferences. If a school wants to field such a team, fine, but it does nothing to increase their relative value to the MVC and may even detract from it if it sucks dollars away from programs that actually do compete in the conference.


Yeah its completely different. You know, other than the name, administration, headquarters, and the majority of the members.
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Re: ORU discussing membership with MVC

Postby valleychamp » October 26th, 2012, 2:33 pm

Bluejay09Bear06 wrote:Jwa, I agree with you about ORU, and I also agree with you about UNI's basketball success. Their Sweet 16 run in 2010 was one of this conference's highlights of the past 10 years. However, in terms of value to the conference, I'm not so sure. It's a smallish school in a smaller market. Their success in basketball kept them above the bottom in my rankings, but the (unfortunate, in my opinion) emphasis placed on media markets and attendance kept them in the bottom three.


The Valley is a basketball conference. That is how the Valley is recognized, and its how they pay the bills.

UNI has made the NCAA tournament 5 times in the last 10 years, including a trip to the S16. Who in this conference has been of more "value" (both publicity-wise and monetarily) to this conference than UNI in that span?
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