Oral Bob at Missouri State

[Ricardo del Rio]

I guess I should qualify my last post.

I thought Valley Champ's comment had more to do with AD competence and selection of a new head than it had to do with finances.

AD Schaus did a nice job in the selection of Coach Turgeon and Coach Marshall.

I suppose I should check out a reading comprehension program.

[Aargh]

How is that laughable when that has translatedt to wins on the court?

1) It isn't about the wins. (1) It is about the statement regarding "who they are 'able' to hire" because of their supposed lack of finances. (2) The idea that MSU would be much better off if they hired a head coach from some tiny mid-major rather than a respected assistant from Purdue is ridiculous, and on its own is based on the faulty premise that they weren't "able" to do so because of money.

2) MSU hasn't won??? Cuonzo was there for 3 years, they got better every year and won an MVC title his last year. Lusk is just starting his tenure, you cannot even make an evaluation on him yet. (3)Was Marshall deemed a failure at WSU after his first two years???

(1) From multiple published reports and from what Hinson was making as one of the top coaches in the Valley when he was at MSU, it's not a "supposed" lack of funds. MSU's athletic department is running on fumes.
(2)The results of hiring a head coach (who had taken their team from horrible to winners) from a tiny mid-major has resulted in a S16, an NIT championship, a Valley title. Those coaches did it with THEIR OWN recruits, instead of relying on their predecessor's recruits to pad their stats. Martin won a league championship, but only an NIT bid, with Hinson's recruits. Then he bailed when his own recruiting resulted in what MSU has today. The facts indicate my premise is accurate and yours is based on opinion and conjecture.
(3)I will be eager to compare Marshall's results after 2 years with Lusk's after 2 years.

[C0|db|00ded]

I love the fact that you think the of hiring high level BCS assistants--such as MSU has done--is a sad commentary on their program and athletic finances, meanwhile the hires that WSU has made (head coaches from Winthrop and Jacksonville State) is supposedly representative of WSU's superior finances and greater hiring capability. Laughable.

Silly boy.

WSU hired two of the hottest up-and-coming young head coaches in the country in Turd and Marshall. We started Turd off with around a half a million dollar salary wayyy back in 1999!!! (it wasn't too long ago that SWOMO's head coach was only making around 250k) Marshall started at around 750-800k. The quality of coaches we brought in demanded that type of pay. Marshall was even hotter than Turd and had turned down several BCS offers before he came to WSU. Now HCGM is making close to 1.6 million dollars and that salary will continue to grow.

You get what you pay for... most of the time.


T


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[valleychamp]

(1) From multiple published reports and from what Hinson was making as one of the top coaches in the Valley when he was at MSU, it's not a "supposed" lack of funds. MSU's athletic department is running on fumes.
(2)The results of hiring a head coach (who had taken their team from horrible to winners) from a tiny mid-major has resulted in a S16, an NIT championship, a Valley title. Those coaches did it with THEIR OWN recruits, instead of relying on their predecessor's recruits to pad their stats. Martin won a league championship, but only an NIT bid, with Hinson's recruits. Then he bailed when his own recruiting resulted in what MSU has today. The facts indicate my premise is accurate and yours is based on opinion and conjecture.
(3)I will be eager to compare Marshall's results after 2 years with Lusk's after 2 years.

Wrong. I never condemned WSU's hires. They have obviously been great hires. I only take issue with the idea that Lusk/Martin were comparatively inferior hires because they were not head coaches, especially based on the premise that MSU did so because of the lack of financing. Never mind the fact that Lusk is in the beginning of YEAR TWO, and we have no idea how this will turn out.

Hiring an assistant from Purdue or a HC from Winthrop. Different paths of hiring, and one is not better than the other.

[Ace Dad]

Maybe I was a little harsh, just looking at the fact that they've played 5 DI teams and are still looking for their first division I win. Doesn't look like they will get one for the next 3 games although Tulsa is possible I guess. Their next predicted win would be @Alabama A&M although it's on the road (and why are they playing SWAC team on the road?).

Ace Dad should be commenting any moment now

I just saw this. I guess crossing the railroad tracks is taboo.

[C0|db|00ded]

Does anybody know what Lusk is making?


T


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[Ace Dad]

Barry has a chance at sweet revenge when SIU comes to MSU.

I'm making a 4 day pilgrimage to Carbondale in February (doesn't that sound nice... Egypt in Feburary). Aces play at SIU on Wednesday, Bears play at SIU on Saturday. Only once would I be cheering for Barry.

I predict Barry will get a standing ovation.

[Aargh]

I only take issue with the idea that Lusk/Martin were comparatively inferior hires because they were not head coaches, especially based on the premise that MSU did so because of the lack of financing. Never mind the fact that Lusk is in the beginning of YEAR TWO, and we have no idea how this will turn out.

Hiring an assistant from Purdue or a HC from Winthrop. Different paths of hiring, and one is not better than the other.

Do you have any clue how delusional this post appears?

First - Compared to Turgeon and Marshall, Martin and Lusk are inferior hires. Both Turgeon and Marshall had head coaching experience. Neither Martin nor Lusk had that experience. I know that in business, if you want to hire a CEO, you hire one with experience in that position over somebody's VP - if you can afford it. You hire an experienced accountant over a college grad - if you can afford it. You hire a bookkeeper instead of a file clerk - if you can afford it.

When MSU booted Hinson, he was making $300K a year. The coaches around him in the league standings were not in that range (CU around $800K, BU around $800K, WSU around $900K). All the comparable schools had to make coaching hires around that time and all but MSU hired established coaches - not assistants. Geno Ford had the huge rebuild job - Cuonzo Martin did not. CU and WSU stayed on top. BU is moving up. MSU is diving deeper into the abyss than SIU.

It was firmly established that at the time Hinson was canned, the MSU athletic department was hurting financially. MSU had to sell a herd of cattle to fund the athletic department. The FB team was hemorrhaging red like a hemophiliac with a puncture wound.

The major trips to the abyss in recent years are all accompanied by hiring assistant coaches. WSU in the entire decade of the '90's followed the hiring of 2 assistant coaches. It required hiring experienced coaches and dropping big $$ to get out of that mediocrity. SIU is a HUGE rebuild because of what an assistant did when he became the head coach. MSU was a perennial top 4 team until they started hiring assistant coaches. Yeah, yeah - I know - Martin won a league championship. HE DID IT WITH HINSON"S RECRUITS!

MSU made it obvious that Hinson was getting fired as soon as his contract expired - they couldn't afford his buyout - that Hinson was absolutely hamstrung in recruiting his last two years. Martin won a league championship with the players Hinson recruited under those circumstances, but Martin couldn't come remotely close to duplicating that level of recruiting.

Valleychamp, you seem to be blissfully ignorant of history and it's been said that those who are ignorant of history are destined to repeat it. If Jacobsen ever leaves UNI, UNI is one bad hire away from joining MSU in the abyss. Hiring assistants and promoting them has a history that indicates that is a risky move.

[Ace Dad]

I only take issue with the idea that Lusk/Martin were comparatively inferior hires because they were not head coaches, especially based on the premise that MSU did so because of the lack of financing. Never mind the fact that Lusk is in the beginning of YEAR TWO, and we have no idea how this will turn out.

Hiring an assistant from Purdue or a HC from Winthrop. Different paths of hiring, and one is not better than the other.

Do you have any clue how delusional this post appears?

First - Compared to Turgeon and Marshall, Martin and Lusk are inferior hires. Both Turgeon and Marshall had head coaching experience. Neither Martin nor Lusk had that experience. I know that in business, if you want to hire a CEO, you hire one with experience in that position over somebody's VP - if you can afford it. You hire an experienced accountant over a college grad - if you can afford it. You hire a bookkeeper instead of a file clerk - if you can afford it.

When MSU booted Hinson, he was making $300K a year. The coaches around him in the league standings were not in that range (CU around $800K, BU around $800K, WSU around $900K). All the comparable schools had to make coaching hires around that time and all but MSU hired established coaches - not assistants. Geno Ford had the huge rebuild job - Cuonzo Martin did not. CU and WSU stayed on top. BU is moving up. MSU is diving deeper into the abyss than SIU.

It was firmly established that at the time Hinson was canned, the MSU athletic department was hurting financially. MSU had to sell a herd of cattle to fund the athletic department. The FB team was hemorrhaging red like a hemophiliac with a puncture wound.

The major trips to the abyss in recent years are all accompanied by hiring assistant coaches. WSU in the entire decade of the '90's followed the hiring of 2 assistant coaches. It required hiring experienced coaches and dropping big $$ to get out of that mediocrity. SIU is a HUGE rebuild because of what an assistant did when he became the head coach. MSU was a perennial top 4 team until they started hiring assistant coaches. Yeah, yeah - I know - Martin won a league championship. HE DID IT WITH HINSON"S RECRUITS!

MSU made it obvious that Hinson was getting fired as soon as his contract expired - they couldn't afford his buyout - that Hinson was absolutely hamstrung in recruiting his last two years. Martin won a league championship with the players Hinson recruited under those circumstances, but Martin couldn't come remotely close to duplicating that level of recruiting.

Valleychamp, you seem to be blissfully ignorant of history and it's been said that those who are ignorant of history are destined to repeat it. If Jacobsen ever leaves UNI, UNI is one bad hire away from joining MSU in the abyss. Hiring assistants and promoting them has a history that indicates that is a risky move.

Good feedback.

Are you saying that there is a strong positive correlation with the hiring of someone with previous successful head coaching experience vice a lead assistant who comes from a strong basketball background, in most conferences or just the MVC?

[valleychamp]

Do you have any clue how delusional this post appears?

First - Compared to Turgeon and Marshall, Martin and Lusk are inferior hires. Both Turgeon and Marshall had head coaching experience. Neither Martin nor Lusk had that experience. I know that in business, if you want to hire a CEO, you hire one with experience in that position over somebody's VP - if you can afford it. You hire an experienced accountant over a college grad - if you can afford it. You hire a bookkeeper instead of a file clerk - if you can afford it.

Right. I suppose you think the HC at Coastal Carolina is a better hire than Chris Collins from Duke too.

When MSU booted Hinson, he was making $300K a year. The coaches around him in the league standings were not in that range (CU around $800K, BU around $800K, WSU around $900K). All the comparable schools had to make coaching hires around that time and all but MSU hired established coaches - not assistants. Geno Ford had the huge rebuild job - Cuonzo Martin did not. CU and WSU stayed on top. BU is moving up. MSU is diving deeper into the abyss than SIU.

I know you like to throw numbers around. 2 minute google search put Turgeon at a $750 base in his final year at WSU, Jim Les at $442K, and Altman at $1MM. Just thought that you should know, that as usual, you are wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2406346
http://www.pjstar.com/news/tricounty/x1411302952/Report-lists-compensation-for-top-Bradley-executives?zc_p=1

It was firmly established that at the time Hinson was canned, the MSU athletic department was hurting financially. MSU had to sell a herd of cattle to fund the athletic department. The FB team was hemorrhaging red like a hemophiliac with a puncture wound.

The major trips to the abyss in recent years are all accompanied by hiring assistant coaches. WSU in the entire decade of the '90's followed the hiring of 2 assistant coaches. It required hiring experienced coaches and dropping big $$ to get out of that mediocrity. SIU is a HUGE rebuild because of what an assistant did when he became the head coach. MSU was a perennial top 4 team until they started hiring assistant coaches. Yeah, yeah - I know - Martin won a league championship. HE DID IT WITH HINSON"S RECRUITS!

Holy broad generalizations and assumptions! Just because WSU sucked at hiring quality assistants to be head coaches, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Did you know what most coaches, at some point in their careers, were not head coaches??? Bruce Weber wasn't a HC before he took over at SIU, and neither was Matt Painter. Either was Kevin Stallings, Jim Les, or Ben Jacobson. Those hired assistants seem to have done alright, and that's just in the Valley.

Are you seriously proclaiming MSU is officially headed to the abyss after 1 year and 5 games under Lusk?? LOL!

MSU made it obvious that Hinson was getting fired as soon as his contract expired - they couldn't afford his buyout - that Hinson was absolutely hamstrung in recruiting his last two years. Martin won a league championship with the players Hinson recruited under those circumstances, but Martin couldn't come remotely close to duplicating that level of recruiting.

Valleychamp, you seem to be blissfully ignorant of history and it's been said that those who are ignorant of history are destined to repeat it. If Jacobsen ever leaves UNI, UNI is one bad hire away from joining MSU in the abyss. Hiring assistants and promoting them has a history that indicates that is a risky move.

EVERYBODY is one bad hire away from the abyss. Money, nor the fact that you hire a HC or an asst is not going to change that fact. Almost every hire is risky.

I'm blissfully ignorant? LOL. You are twisting/ignoring facts all over the place to fit your narrative (only WSU has enough money to hire big name coaches from Winthrop!!, Hiring assistants is always a disaster and it always means you are broke!!). Its apparent that you've gone off your rocker old man, but at least try to have some perspective.