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jigga wrote:

mathewson10 wrote:

PantherSigEp wrote:He's also lost guys like Ekey who was a perfectly good player and played really well in the Big 10 this season. I don't think anyone said he recruited guys and then cast them aside. The statement was more of a general comment amount the attrition rate ISUr has suffered since Muller took to the helm. At least it appeared that way to me.

Players that have left since Mueller has been the coach:
Bryant Allen-Drugs
Zeke Upshaw- Transfer Hofstra
Jon Ekey- Transfer Illinois- Did not play "really well" against B1G Schools
Johnny Hill- Transfer Tex-Arlington
Jordan Threloff- Transfer Northern IL
Kaza Keane- DII player at best
Nick Zeisloft- 6'4" forward who can't dribble but makes an occasional 3
Zach Lofton- Horrible Attitude. Horrible Shot Selection. Had maybe 8 good games all year.
!

These assesments and opinions are through RedBird tinted lenses. Drank too much Jim Jones kool-Aid.

John Ekey, played well for an undermanned illinois team, RedBirds could have used his services this season.
Kaza- Can and probably will play D1 ball
Zeke- went from averaging 7mins a game with the Birds, to average 20ppg for Hofstra.
Hill- Solid PG and player, Muller couldn't seem to get along with(like others).
Lofton- started the season very innefficient, grew as a player, contributed very much to many wins. Could have contributed more and we could have won more had he gotten minutes. (He and Muller couldn't get along either)
that was the most inconsistant thing with him this year was minutes.

You can add Tyler Brown and threloff to the list of players Muller could not get along with(although he was not a Muller recruit)

Zeisloft is going Ivy League, for education and pt.
Lofton is getting a variety of BCS interest.
I'm willing to bet Kaza can be servicable at a D1 program.

any of the links below show these players contributing this season, I would have loved to see them continue at ISU. I wish them all the best, Go Birds.

ISU at Drake- http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=yout ... UMw1lMVwFI

ISU at NorthWestern- http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x-jlP5Y1R8A

DePaul at ISU- http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4L1ouOJJNfE

Lofton in ISU's win against Dayton- http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F8inn4zzEgs

Lofton in the MVC tourney- http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oTtl7U4wd9 ... ata_player

PS Hofstra might as well be D-II

mathewson10 wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:You said the top teams in the MAC would get destroyed by the Valley. Which just doesn't look true. The gap between the MVC and the MAC this year was about the size of WSU being a Top 5 team instead of a Top 25-40 team. So, I guess maybe the MAC would've been destroyed by WSU, just as the Valley was, but I'm not sure much of the rest of your argument stands up.

Here is what I said:
"I'm going to say Reggie Lynch could have posted the same numbers against that level of competition. Eastern Michigan? Buffalo? Kent State? Those teams would get dominated in the valley."

Eastern Michigan & Kent State were not top teams in the MAC. Buffalo was the 3rd best team. I believe my statement that the level of competition being lower the the MVC is historically & currently accurate based on those RPI numbers. You are correct that if the top team in a conference is not included then a conference is weaker.

Holy non-sequitur, Batman!

You said those teams would get dominated in the Valley, when the RPIs of 2 of them suggest they would be fighting for 3rd behind WSU and ISUB. You were trying to imply that Threloff's numbers could be discarded because he moved to a much inferior conference, when the facts suggest otherwise. It happens.

ISU was 4-2 this year against teams that "might as well be DII"(RPI 260+). All of those wins came at home, and the losses were by 10+ points. It goes to a stellar 6-4 if you move into "transitional" (200+) type teams.

17-16 probably isn't the best place to stand if you want to look down on so much of the college basketball world.

IMO none of your arguments have much to stand on, but I can tell you are opinionated and will have something to say about anything. So I'll just address a few pieces of bs that I have seen you argue.

1- Lofton's shot selection improved greatly over the season, he shot 40% from 3 in the last 10 games.
and also never took our offense out of too much flow, in fact often he was our only offense. i.e. MVC tourney the next highest scorer had 6. he single handedly kept us compatetive in various games(@Evansville, @Northern Iowa, MVC Tourney against Mo St.).

We often put him in after not being able to get anything going and hope he could shoot us back into the game, which he did in a significant amount of games, some of that can contribute to low fg%.

Also he was our best ball-handler and passer, almost the best defensive players(I'll give the nod to Lee though).
His biggest issue was not seeing eye-to-eye with HCDM. (which is becoming a trend of DM's)

ZL will be fine somewhere else, BCS schools were salivating waiting on him to transfer.

2- As for Hofstra being a D2, They played some decent competition, played some of the same teams we did.
Louisville, SMU, Drexle, Sienna, NorthEastern, William&Mary, UNC Wilmington.

3- MAC was 1 RPI lower than the MVC, the MVC was not very good this year besides WSU.

4- The RedBird boards general consesus is they are ok with these players leaving and can find upgrades to all 3 of them, I dont think it will be as easy, but they are confident over there. I hope they are right.

they are not treating them leaving like the end of the world.

i'm still excited about next season for the Birds with the incoming recruits Hawkins, McIntosh, Purcell. They should still be fun to watch even with a few growing pains.....

I'm done now too many key strokes devoted to non-sense. You can carry on with your arguments now.

The MVC was only better than the MAC this year because there was one team in the MVC that significantly raised the conference RPI above a level that would represent the rest of the teams.

When a coach loses 8 players to transfers in two years, it opens up a pretty big opportunity for other coaches to point that out to recruits. Even if there is justification for those transfers (which most on this board seriously question), that recruit and his parents will just see the instability. Muller is shooting himself in the foot - or maybe a slightly higher, but still below the waist, target.

Aargh wrote:The MVC was only better than the MAC this year because there was one team in the MVC that significantly raised the conference RPI above a level that would represent the rest of the teams.

When a coach loses 8 players to transfers in two years, it opens up a pretty big opportunity for other coaches to point that out to recruits. Even if there is justification for those transfers (which most on this board seriously question), that recruit and his parents will just see the instability. Muller is shooting himself in the foot - or maybe a slightly higher, but still below the waist, target.

Right...the difference between the MVC and the MAC this year was Wichita State. End of story.

Now, I hope this was a one year glitch as the MVC is what, usually 2-4 spots higher than the MAC? But it isn't like the MAC is the MEAC. Come on.

No doubt Dan Muller has been bold. Both in overturning the roster and taking on some question marks. Last year it worked out reasonably well. Im not ready to announce them as "arrived" by any stretch.

tribecalledquest wrote:Im not ready to announce them as "arrived" by any stretch.

They definitely have not arrived. You might say they left, before they came.

We need to start a running thread- "Who has left Illinois State today?"

Michael Middlebrooks wasn't previously mentioned in the two year group. I think that makes 9?

jigga wrote:IMO none of your arguments have much to stand on, but I can tell you are opinionated and will have something to say about anything. So I'll just address a few pieces of bs that I have seen you argue.

1- Lofton's shot selection improved greatly over the season, he shot 40% from 3 in the last 10 games.
and also never took our offense out of too much flow, in fact often he was our only offense. i.e. MVC tourney the next highest scorer had 6. he single handedly kept us compatetive in various games(@Evansville, @Northern Iowa, MVC Tourney against Mo St.).

We often put him in after not being able to get anything going and hope he could shoot us back into the game, which he did in a significant amount of games, some of that can contribute to low fg%.

Also he was our best ball-handler and passer, almost the best defensive players(I'll give the nod to Lee though).
His biggest issue was not seeing eye-to-eye with HCDM. (which is becoming a trend of DM's)

ZL will be fine somewhere else, BCS schools were salivating waiting on him to transfer.

2- As for Hofstra being a D2, They played some decent competition, played some of the same teams we did.
Louisville, SMU, Drexle, Sienna, NorthEastern, William&Mary, UNC Wilmington.

3- MAC was 1 RPI lower than the MVC, the MVC was not very good this year besides WSU.

4- The RedBird boards general consesus is they are ok with these players leaving and can find upgrades to all 3 of them, I dont think it will be as easy, but they are confident over there. I hope they are right.

they are not treating them leaving like the end of the world.

i'm still excited about next season for the Birds with the incoming recruits Hawkins, McIntosh, Purcell. They should still be fun to watch even with a few growing pains.....

I'm done now too many key strokes devoted to non-sense. You can carry on with your arguments now.

The pot calling the kettle black...