Evansville at Drake (7:05) - ESPNU

[purple&orange]

Phelps can't be all bad can he, he's off to the best start in school history according to Holtus.

Wait a minute. You're not serious are you?

I believe that stat was for the start of his tenure at Drake vs all the former coaches in that same time span. Stats can be manipulated or used for an advantage or disadvantage so I get it. Look I've seen Drake twice this year (WSU 3 OT, and last night) and they played pretty well in those games. For a number of years it seemed you could write in Evansville v Drake for a Thursday night tilt in STL. I don't think it's a stretch to say that during the 2000s these were the perceived doormats of the league. I don't follow Drake nearly as close as you would but from the outside, I don't feel like Phelps has done that terrible of a job based on what little I know. Typically if another fanbase is saying stuff like Lowery's got to go at SIU, it's long overdue but I'm not all that familiar with the Bulldogs so take it with a grain of salt.

Look, this league is constantly evolving and unlike other leagues around the country there isn't an established hierarchy. Take the SEC for example, you'll have UK at the top (uggh) and then you'll have overrated Florida, Vandy, Tennessee, and maybe a couple others before a bunch of junk teams. Year in and year out that's how that league is. Here everybody's gone to the tourney/won a share of the league crown over the last 15-16 years, pretty remarkable. I think that plays into expectations because we've all had success at one time or another over that time period and feel there is no reason why we can't capture that same magic and make another run.

[PantherSigEp]

All I was pointing out is the fact 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

No you suggested it was something to the effect of Wichita, Creighton and Drake and no one else is even close to them which I completely disagree with. The talent in the Valley is way way up from a decade ago. While some teams are unquestionably more talented than others to suggest that there is a big gap (especially between Drake and most of the other teams) is incorrect and being a homer.

My point with Illinois State is even though you gave them a beating, their talent came back and did the same to you a 2nd time around. You can blame Mr. Phelps all you want for not getting that talent to perform to expectations but let's give credit to the fact that the teams beating you have quite a bit of talent as well.

[davidfast]

All I was pointing out is the fact 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

No you suggested it was something to the effect of Wichita, Creighton and Drake and no one else is even close to them which I completely disagree with. The talent in the Valley is way way up from a decade ago. While some teams are unquestionably more talented than others to suggest that there is a big gap (especially between Drake and most of the other teams) is incorrect and being a homer.

My point with Illinois State is even though you gave them a beating, their talent came back and did the same to you a 2nd time around. You can blame Mr. Phelps all you want for not getting that talent to perform to expectations but let's give credit to the fact that the teams beating you have quite a bit of talent as well.

Please point out where I specifically stated that no one else is even close to them. You do realize I didn't write the original post that bluejays89 was quoting right?

[bluejays89]

All I was pointing out is the fact 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

No you suggested it was something to the effect of Wichita, Creighton and Drake and no one else is even close to them which I completely disagree with. The talent in the Valley is way way up from a decade ago. While some teams are unquestionably more talented than others to suggest that there is a big gap (especially between Drake and most of the other teams) is incorrect and being a homer.

My point with Illinois State is even though you gave them a beating, their talent came back and did the same to you a 2nd time around. You can blame Mr. Phelps all you want for not getting that talent to perform to expectations but let's give credit to the fact that the teams beating you have quite a bit of talent as well.

Please point out where I specifically stated that no one else is even close to them. You do realize I didn't write the original post that bluejays89 was quoting right?

Sorry, my word choice was confusing. But what I was really replying to was the statement that indicates where he thinks Drake would be in second place in the league if they played up to their abilities. His statement made it seem that he thinks Drake is superior to either Creighton (most likely) or WSU. Specifically the last two sentences.

"If Drake had been allowed to play this way all season they would be second in the Valley, but unfortunately they have lost to teams with inferior talent all season long."

[Drake2010]

From what I've seen, I'd put Drake around fourth or fifth in the league in terms of raw talent. Simons and Rice are both athletic studs, and the guards have shown some flashes, as well. The bottom line is, talent doesn't matter when you come out flat and get out hustled and miss open shots and free throws in a variety of games. Talent is one measure while grit and chemistry and confidence are other facets entirely, in my opinion.

Having said all that, if Rice returns, I'd be extremely disappointed if Drake finished anywhere below third next year with a healthy Van Deest and Simons.

[Wufan]

Drake easily has the top 3 talent in the Valley.

This is where that notion came from...

[Dawg_tired]

The game of basketball is all about matchups. We over match Evansville and NIU over matches us. Evansville is skinny, we're thick...for the most part.

[PantherSigEp]

All I was pointing out is the fact 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

No you suggested it was something to the effect of Wichita, Creighton and Drake and no one else is even close to them which I completely disagree with. The talent in the Valley is way way up from a decade ago. While some teams are unquestionably more talented than others to suggest that there is a big gap (especially between Drake and most of the other teams) is incorrect and being a homer.

My point with Illinois State is even though you gave them a beating, their talent came back and did the same to you a 2nd time around. You can blame Mr. Phelps all you want for not getting that talent to perform to expectations but let's give credit to the fact that the teams beating you have quite a bit of talent as well.

Please point out where I specifically stated that no one else is even close to them. You do realize I didn't write the original post that bluejays89 was quoting right?

As Wufan has pointed out, I mistook you for Drakey you made that assumption. I did not take care to notice this mistake and I apologize davidfast.

[dsmbulldog]

I don't think Drakey's post was too far off base-there is a lot of talent on DU's team that has been very poorly utilized by Phelps. They showed last night that they cold be a devastating team if allowed to play in transition and up tempo, but Phelps has always insisted on a grind-it-out style with very little effectiveness. Put in a system that truly played to our guys' talents, I don't doubt they'd be top 3.

[Wufan]

No question that Drake plus VanDeest and Simons is right there... No question that there is an argument for Drake to have top three talent. Truth is that other than SVD, RR, and Simons, there are very few Bulldows that would play on another team in the Valley sans BU. Jeffers and Madison someday, but not this year.