Missouri State's Jamar Gulley out for 2012-13 season

[Shocker_Phi]

Wichita fans are crazy. They think their team is going to be at the top just because they have a big recruiting budget and can get high profile JC players. All they have coming back is two guys who were role players last season and neither showed they can score 15+ a night. Where is the offense going to come from? Early and Wiggins might be fine JC scorers but no way they score more than 10 a night in the valley their first go around. This is D1 ball and a damn good conference. I'll take the teams with players who have proven their skills against D1 competition over a bunch of guys who beat up on southwestern state community college for the blind. Dont see them being more than a 5 or 6 seed.

Thanks. We like to be called crazy. We are absolutely nuts about our program and support it blindly. Through thick and thin. Also, I like how we don't have a single "star player" or two who rack up all the points by themselves. I like a well balanced team that shares the ball and 4 or 5 players get 10 to 15 points or so on a night.

I like our chances next year. Maybe not quite NCAA worthy (or in your viewpoint, not at all), but I still like them.

[Wufan]

Wichita fans are crazy. They think their team is going to be at the top just because they have a big recruiting budget and can get high profile JC players. All they have coming back is two guys who were role players last season and neither showed they can score 15+ a night. Where is the offense going to come from? Early and Wiggins might be fine JC scorers but no way they score more than 10 a night in the valley their first go around. This is D1 ball and a damn good conference. I'll take the teams with players who have proven their skills against D1 competition over a bunch of guys who beat up on southwestern state community college for the blind. Dont see them being more than a 5 or 6 seed.

Nothing wrong with your overall take, however I do have a couple of notes:

No one has said we are going to be at the top.

We return two starters, one of which was the NOY. Armstead was a two year starter at Oregon. Thats thee starters. How many are you returning? Also, this past year we were able to develop our freshman and roll players due to depth. That is a luxury most teams don't have.

We haven't had a 14 point scorer, let alone 15 point scorer in 12 years.

Scoring 10 a night as a JC in your first year isn't a huge rarity. Ask Brown and Gulley.

I agree with the statement about preferring D-I experience.

[BEARZ77]

You just have to wonder if some of the Shocker faithful are as uninformed as they sound when they start talking about the Shox having size and athleticism beyond the rest of the Valley. Do they not know that CU has a pair of young 6'11 -7'0 posts sitting behind Ech. Have they not seen the quickness of Chatman or figured out Dingman and Johnson are 6'5/6'6 wings. Did they not notice that ISU has guys like Tyler Brown and Eckey playing on the wings and they go 6'9/6'9/6'11 across Wilkins/Carmichael/Treloff. It's great to be optimistic about your own team and it's potential, but try to be a little knowledgeable about the competition if you're going to start making those kind of assertions.

[jackwagon]

Wichita fans are crazy. They think their team is going to be at the top just because they have a big recruiting budget and can get high profile JC players. All they have coming back is two guys who were role players last season and neither showed they can score 15+ a night. Where is the offense going to come from? Early and Wiggins might be fine JC scorers but no way they score more than 10 a night in the valley their first go around. This is D1 ball and a damn good conference. I'll take the teams with players who have proven their skills against D1 competition over a bunch of guys who beat up on southwestern state community college for the blind. Dont see them being more than a 5 or 6 seed.

Nothing wrong with your overall take, however I do have a couple of notes:

No one has said we are going to be at the top.

We return two starters, one of which was the NOY. Armstead was a two year starter at Oregon. Thats thee starters. How many are you returning? Also, this past year we were able to develop our freshman and roll players due to depth. That is a luxury most teams don't have.

We haven't had a 14 point scorer, let alone 15 point scorer in 12 years.

Scoring 10 a night as a JC in your first year isn't a huge rarity. Ask Brown and Gulley.

I agree with the statement about preferring D-I experience.

Armstead is a fine player forgot about him. Hall is a nice hustle/banger/dirty work player but is not a star with legit post moves and D. Williams is athletic, good defender but cant score much. My point is your relying on guys who have never played at WSU or against D1 players to come in and take the place of your most important scorers. Who is going to be the new Stutz or the new Ragland or the new Murry etc. Those were the 3 guys who made WSU great last year and they arent back. They werent great because of Hall, Williams, and Cotton

[Wufan]

Wichita fans are crazy. They think their team is going to be at the top just because they have a big recruiting budget and can get high profile JC players. All they have coming back is two guys who were role players last season and neither showed they can score 15+ a night. Where is the offense going to come from? Early and Wiggins might be fine JC scorers but no way they score more than 10 a night in the valley their first go around. This is D1 ball and a damn good conference. I'll take the teams with players who have proven their skills against D1 competition over a bunch of guys who beat up on southwestern state community college for the blind. Dont see them being more than a 5 or 6 seed.

Nothing wrong with your overall take, however I do have a couple of notes:

No one has said we are going to be at the top.

We return two starters, one of which was the NOY. Armstead was a two year starter at Oregon. Thats thee starters. How many are you returning? Also, this past year we were able to develop our freshman and roll players due to depth. That is a luxury most teams don't have.

We haven't had a 14 point scorer, let alone 15 point scorer in 12 years.

Scoring 10 a night as a JC in your first year isn't a huge rarity. Ask Brown and Gulley.

I agree with the statement about preferring D-I experience.

Armstead is a fine player forgot about him. Hall is a nice hustle/banger/dirty work player but is not a star with legit post moves and D. Williams is athletic, good defender but cant score much. My point is your relying on guys who have never played at WSU or against D1 players to come in and take the place of your most important scorers. Who is going to be the new Stutz or the new Ragland or the new Murry etc. Those were the 3 guys who made WSU great last year and they arent back. They werent great because of Hall, Williams, and Cotton

Well put, and just because I disagree, doesn't mean that it isn't prophetic; but hey it's July, and in July this is what I see:

In addition to returning senior starters Hall and Williams, we return freshman role players Cotton and White and senior 7 footer Orukpe, whom thus far has played the part of Clark Kent. We will see if he finds a phone booth to change clothes in this year. That's a mid-pack starting 5 IMO.

The new faces, not including Armstead, are a first team All-State guard from Kansas, an athletic big-bodied JUCO center, Texas District POY forward, top 100 ranked PG, a JUCO AA guard, JUCO AA wing, and JUCO POY forward.

Not a lot of experience there, but that roster carries a lot of excitement in July.

[Khan4Cats]

but that roster carries a lot of excitement in July.

I think that sums up about every sports team there is except maybe the Seattle Mariners or Houston Astros

[TNMSUFAN]

We return two starters, one of which was the NOY

The Bears return 3 guys who started games last year including the 6th leading returning scorer in the league in Downing. If Gulley didn't go down it would have been 4 starters and 2 top 10 returning scorers...yet most people think we will suck which I understand because we lost so much. Recruits are great but it isn't until the lights go on that you know what you got.

[PantherSigEp]

We return two starters, one of which was the NOY

The Bears return 3 guys who started games last year including the 6th leading returning scorer in the league in Downing. If Gulley didn't go down it would have been 4 starters and 2 top 10 returning scorers...yet most people think we will suck which I understand because we lost so much. Recruits are great but it isn't until the lights go on that you know what you got.

I think the issue is that Missouri State didn't separate themselves from the middle of the Valley last year and they lost one of the leagues top players in Kyle Weems and now Jamar Gulley. I don't think anyone believes MSU will be falling off the map but those losses make me skeptical that the Bears will be true contenders for an NCAA berth. Creighton, UNI, Illinois State and even Evansville and (I may be drinking the CBB_fan kool-aid) Wichita State have reason to be more optimistic about. It's not out of the realm of possibility but just look at the production you lose and where you stood just a few months ago.

[TNMSUFAN]

I think the issue is that Missouri State didn't separate themselves from the middle of the Valley last year and they lost one of the leagues top players in Kyle Weems and now Jamar Gulley. I don't think anyone believes MSU will be falling off the map but those losses make me skeptical that the Bears will be true contenders for an NCAA berth. Creighton, UNI, Illinois State and even Evansville and (I may be drinking the CBB_fan kool-aid) Wichita State have reason to be more optimistic about. It's not out of the realm of possibility but just look at the production you lose and where you stood just a few months ago.

I sure never said we would be a contender for an NCAA berth and feel some frosh will have to grow up fast for us to be a non play-in team...which can happen. Gavin Thurman and Marcus Marshall are 2 of the better frosh I have seen in a while and our season depends on if they are ready to contribute. We have some very good young perimeter players but our lack of frontline depth is going to hurt us some nights...homer pick for me is 4/5 not NCAA tournament berth.

[PantherSigEp]

I sure never said we would be a contender for an NCAA berth and feel some frosh will have to grow up fast for us to be a non play-in team...which can happen. Gavin Thurman and Marcus Marshall are 2 of the better frosh I have seen in a while and our season depends on if they are ready to contribute. We have some very good young perimeter players but our lack of frontline depth is going to hurt us some nights...homer pick for me is 4/5 not NCAA tournament berth.

I was only illustrating the two ends of the spectrum. Worst case scenario, MSU is last in the MVC. Best case scenario, they make the NCAA's. That's where my thought came from, I was not implying that you made these claims.