MVC Preseason Poll

[Aargh]

MSU took a once every 4 years trip and went to Costa Rica? COSTA RICA?? Is it possible to find a lower level of competition in the entire world?

WSU is being underrated and disrespected.

UNI and IlSU will not finish ahead of the Shox - and it won't even be that close. Prepare yourselves for 2012 - Part II.

[ictjay]

MSU took a once every 4 years trip and went to Costa Rica? COSTA RICA?? Is it possible to find a lower level of competition in the entire world?

WSU is being underrated and disrespected.

UNI and IlSU will not finish ahead of the Shox - and it won't even be that close. Prepare yourselves for 2012 - Part II.

Aargh, I participate on Shockernet. I went to Shocker Madness. There are some good pieces there. At last look, there were no less than 10 Shockers being touted as can't miss difference makers who have yet to play 1 minute (or legit minutes) of Division 1 basketball. This based on whispers and innuendo.
I don't see the poll as being off base. If Gregg can get them a top 2 finish, he's done a hell of a job. A 4-5th place finish wouldn't surprise me either. Everybody is good going into college.

[valleychamp]

MSU took a once every 4 years trip and went to Costa Rica? COSTA RICA?? Is it possible to find a lower level of competition in the entire world?

WSU is being underrated and disrespected.

UNI and IlSU will not finish ahead of the Shox - and it won't even be that close. Prepare yourselves for 2012 - Part II.

Give me a break. WSU lost, what, 4 starters and the vast majority of their scoring correct? Voting them to finish anywhere in the top half is plenty of respect, and about as much as you can possibly hope for. I mean seriously, how many teams that have to replace that much talent from a good team would be picked that high?

WSU's team is comprised of a great deal of young talent, JUCO guys, and others who have yet to play too many meaningful minutes of D1 college basketball. Many of them haven't "earned" anything yet. They may very well be good, and they may very well finish higher than they are predicted. And its fine if you believe that to be the case. But they have to prove it on the court before they are going to get high praise.

[Ali]

It should be a battle every night in the Valley this year. Who cares where you got picked. Go prove it on the court.

[ictjay]

It should be a battle every night in the Valley this year. Who cares where you got picked. Go prove it on the court.

[DoubleJayAlum]

MSU took a once every 4 years trip and went to Costa Rica? COSTA RICA?? Is it possible to find a lower level of competition in the entire world?

WSU is being underrated and disrespected.

UNI and IlSU will not finish ahead of the Shox - and it won't even be that close. Prepare yourselves for 2012 - Part II.

Give me a break. WSU lost, what, 4 starters and the vast majority of their scoring correct? Voting them to finish anywhere in the top half is plenty of respect, and about as much as you can possibly hope for. I mean seriously, how many teams that have to replace that much talent from a good team would be picked that high?

WSU's team is comprised of a great deal of young talent, JUCO guys, and others who have yet to play too many meaningful minutes of D1 college basketball. Many of them haven't "earned" anything yet. They may very well be good, and they may very well finish higher than they are predicted. And its fine if you believe that to be the case. But they have to prove it on the court before they are going to get high praise.

STOP THE PRESSES!!!! Valleychamp and I agree on something!

I can understand that some WSu fans may not like where they are picked, but to say WSU is being 'disrespected' is hyperbole and not supportable. They may well be underrated, but one really can't make that declaration until the end of the year.

The thing about JUCOs is that they usually take anywhere from 6 months to one year to get fully acclimated to D1 ball. Add to that the fact that most JUCO kids aren't exactly intellectual heavyweights (that's why a lot of them ended up in JUCO in the first place) and the learning curve for a complicated system can be even greater.

[Wufan]

The thing about JUCOs is that they usually take anywhere from 6 months to one year to get fully acclimated to D1 ball. Add to that the fact that most JUCO kids aren't exactly intellectual heavyweights (that's why a lot of them ended up in JUCO in the first place) and the learning curve for a complicated system can be even greater.

I know most kids go to JUCO due to grade issues, but that is not the case with the current crop at WSU.

Armstead was a qualifier and transferred to Oregon after his freshman year.

Early qualified out of high school, but played at a small school and wanted more exposure. He was 6-6, 180 when he graduated and is now 6-8 215.

EO is a straight A Engineering student.

Wiggins and Lufile also qualified out of HS, but are Canadian and had academic transcript issues.

Hall, I believe, went to a D-I or D-II college out of HS to play football…I believe he qualified, but changed to basketball and had no offers at that point.

As to their ability to get a complicated system, I don't know.

[2livewu]

They may very well be good, and they may very well finish higher than they are predicted. And its fine if you believe that to be the case. But they have to prove it on the court before they are going to get high praise.

Well UNI has proved they have .500 talent in the Valley for 2 years. That seems to be well proven at this point.

They well be underrated, but one really can't make that declaration until the end of the year.

But isn't that the case with EVERY opinion? Creighton may be overrated and SIU may be underrated. I don't think you're effectively using that BJ education.

The thing about JUCOs is that they usually take anywhere from 6 months to one year to get fully acclimated to D1 ball. Add to that the fact that most JUCO kids aren't exactly intellectual heavyweights (that's why a lot of them ended up in JUCO in the first place) and the learning curve for a complicated system can be even greater.

WSU is counting on 1 first year Juco guy, a kid widely considered to be amongst the top 5 if not the best Juco player in the country, to be an integral cog in their system this season. Anything additional will be a bonus. There are, occasionally, successful programs that win big time, with a Juco or two almost every year. While I agree most Juco players are projects, Early is not most Juco players. Yes, there usually is a transition period, but they Valley race is the back 2/3rds of the season and Early is likely to have most things down by then, and what he struggles with will often be compensated by his size and talent.

Lastly, your backhanded slams at Juco kids, and frankly anyone you deem intellectually inferior to you is getting old and tiresome. Why don't you let it go? You're supposed to be moderator here. Big time college basketball includes a plurality of young men that aren't going to be professionals in the business world. You know this but seem to say it's not okay for Valley teams, especially Wichita State.

Personally, I don't think WSU is poorly placed, although I think they deserve to be ahead of a UNI team that is a notch below WSU in talent. Creighton should win the league and anything less will be a complete failure for the Jays. ISUR has enough talent to deserve to be selected 2nd. After that, WSU should be 3rd based both on known quantities and the 3 most recent years of unmatched success in the MVC. Just my opinion though...I am looking forward to seeing some games.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Lastly, your backhanded slams at Juco kids, and frankly anyone you deem intellectually inferior to you is getting old and tiresome. Why don't you let it go? You're supposed to be moderator here. Big time college basketball includes a plurality of young men that aren't going to be professionals in the business world. You know this but seem to say it's not okay for Valley teams, especially Wichita State.

If I am a moderator here, nobody has ever notified me! I also don't have moderator privileges....

My comment was not a backhanded slam towards JUCO kids, but an absolute fact. A lot of times those kids do end up in JUCO because of academics. I don't think that expecting that it may take such a kid a little longer to learn a complicated system (which, by the way, I believe that Marshall's is) is a big stretch. I'd also suggest that there is a great deal of evidence and past examples to back up my opinion.

If you are a JUCO grad and are offended by the comment, I'd suggest that you reread my initial post where I specifically included the modifier 'most' and never said it was true of 'all' JUCO kids. I'll leave it to you to decide if you fit in with the 'most' group or not.

I don't really understand your last comment, but would add that Creighton and Drake (and perhaps Evansville) are at a competitive disadvantage at times because those schools can't sign every recruit that other schools in the conference can sign because the kid will never make it through admissions. I have never complained about it however, and understand it is just another obstacle that we just have to deal with.

(The question I have for you is, how difficult is it to maintain two separate screen personas? Do you ever accidentally type in a Coldblooded post under the 2livewu persona, and realize that you better modify it quick because you are posting under your more understanding persona?)

[Aargh]

Just as I expected. WSU fans aren't really allowed to be fans, by supporting their team here. Any time anyone says WSU will be better than mediocre, there are about 2 immediate pages of posts ridiculing that opinion.

Let me give you this little tidbit: Fans support their team - sometimes radically.

Some fan bases are allowed any level of enthusiasm they can muster for their teams, but not WSU fans.