Oral Bob at Missouri State

[C0|db|00ded]

Chimp.. Chimp.. Chimp....... *sigh*


T


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[Aargh]

I had a reply - complete with facts, but this is pointless.

I admit I am defeated in this argument. I will allow you to wallow in your ignorance.

I believe your hypothesis is that the financial well-being of an athletic department has no bearing on the success or failure of the programs in that athletic department. And that hiring coaches with no track record at a head coaching position is at least the equivalent of hiring coaches with proven track records at successfully coaching D1 programs.

I am not interested in attempting to educate someone who uses the SIU/MSU coaching hiring model as an example of how to hire basketball coaches.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I thought Cuonzo Martin brought in a bunch of JUCOs himself at MSU and those JUCOs were most of the main guys on their title team. Outside of Weems who was definitely a Hinson recruit, were MSU's players on the title team really all Hinson recruits?

[DoubleJayAlum]

Instead of blaming the MSU AD, maybe you should look at the alumni and their apparent lack of financial support for MSU athletics.

MSU's apparent budget for a basketball coach only allows for hiring assistants who are unproven as head coaches. I doubt MSU can even hire from the top tier of assistants. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. MSU is 0 for 2 on their hires since they fired Barry. (3 years of riding Weems, and then bailing for more money isn't a hiring success).

It's like you sent Moats to the liquor store with a five dollar bill and then complained when he brought back Milwaukee's Best because you were expecting champagne.

That's not entirely true regarding the coaching budget. There was a lot of money thrown at Cuonzo to try to get him to stay before he took the Tennessee job. That came from alumni. When he left we hired a top asst. Top assistants taking a head coaching job don't get 7 figure or even high 6 figure salaries. If or when Lusk gets MSU back to the top of the Valley I think he'll be rewarded handsomely.

I don't necessarily agree with all of Aargh's points (he seems to diminish the conference title and doesn't give Martin any credit for the JUco kids he recruited) but I think there is some veracity in the "pay what you can" talk.

If MSU could have really afforded to hire somebody better than Lusk, why didn't they? I understand the argument that alumni were willing to step up to pay Martin right before he left, but at that point it is probably too late (the same thing happened at Drake). Once a guy is getting big time offers, you can't match those. On top of that, the coach probably feels that he was already getting substantially underpaid and was under appreciated (especially when he is getting less than half of what other MVC coaches are getting and he just beat them for the conference title). I understand the "you have to earn your raises", but the message it sends can also be a little insulting too --- we like you enough to hire you, but we aren't going to pay you among the top half of the coaches in the conference until you earn it...it sounds almost like a lack of trust... I'd also add that at the time of his hiring, neither Marshall nor McDermott had won a conference regular season or tourney title, nor had they taken their current team to the MVC tourney.

Someone above (maybe Aargh?) said that Lusk/Martin is what happens when you do something on the cheap. I'd state it differently --- I think hiring coaches on the cheap is a case study on the impact of non-power conference football on an athletic department's finances. SIU was just lucky that nobody wanted poor Barry.

I've seem some argue that Creighton and WSU are causing price inflation among MVC coaching salaries. I get that argument, but contend that nonpower college football is more of a salary cap, or if you prefer NECKCAR, a restricter plate, on basketball coaches' salaries....

[Khan4Cats]

Oh good, it's not just Evansville threads that get over-run with WSU superiority crap.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I prefer to look at these matters rather simply.

AD Schaus did a fine job in selecting the two head coaches for men's basketball at WSU.

How do we know? Look at the track records.

All of the other peripheral issues and nuances discussed gets rolled into two categories as follows:
Who was hired
What are the results

That's it.

[valleychamp]

I prefer to look at these matters rather simply.

AD Schaus did a fine job in selecting the two head coaches for men's basketball at WSU.

How do we know? Look at the track records.

All of the other peripheral issues and nuances discussed gets rolled into two categories as follows:
Who was hired
What are the results

That's it.

Exactly. Which is why it is silly to argue that WSU's strategy of hiring head coaches from mid-majors is a vastly superior tactic, when:

A) Cuonzo had some significant measurable success in his short stint at MSU,
B) Its far to early to evaluate Paul Lusk, and
C) There are countless examples of successful hired assistant coaches.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

I don't even know what we are debating about anymore.

The one thing that I do know is that the assistant coach to HC route has worked at many big time schools. Look at Roy Williams, Bill Guthridge, Brad Stevens, Frank Martin, etc.

[FeartheQ]

I'd like to have a couple of years of recruiting under our new coach before we get written off into the abyss. This should be a conversation taking place 3-4 years after a hire, not a little over one.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

I'd like to have a couple of years of recruiting under our new coach before we get written off into the abyss. This should be a conversation taking place 3-4 years after a hire, not a little over one.

That's nice in theory. Yes giving a coach a full 4 years to develop his guys is "ideal." But it doesn't work that way in modern college basketball. If we are even a quarter of as bad as we have shown in the first 1.25 years of Lusk in the next 2.75 years then we will be a shell of a program. We won't have fans, our boosters will be pocketing the money or giving it to Drury (this actually could happen), and crowds of 2,000 will be at JQH. At that point we won't have the resources to hire anyone of substance. We can't have that. Lusk needs to be on notice starting now actually last Saturday.