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ACECARD wrote:+10. WSU fans are out of control.

10-0 baby! Ranked 10th in the Nation. What is there not to be "out of control" about.

ACECARD wrote:

valleychamp wrote:The level of condescension and elitism by some of you Shocker posters is so astounding. It actually reads like satire, but it amazingly is not.

Note to other posters, you may as well not type any sort of comment that can be interpreted as desparaging toward the WSU team, because if you do, you end up with stupid 7 page threads like this one.

+10. WSU fans are out of control.

Losing to Jackson State at home is out of control.

Black wrote:

ACECARD wrote:

valleychamp wrote:The level of condescension and elitism by some of you Shocker posters is so astounding. It actually reads like satire, but it amazingly is not.

Note to other posters, you may as well not type any sort of comment that can be interpreted as desparaging toward the WSU team, because if you do, you end up with stupid 7 page threads like this one.

+10. WSU fans are out of control.

Losing to Jackson State at home is out of control.

calling EU fans the best fan's in college basketball is out of control...

Black wrote:

valleychamp wrote:The level of condescension and elitism by some of you Shocker posters is so astounding. It actually reads like satire, but it amazingly is not.

Note to other posters, you may as well not type any sort of comment that can be interpreted as desparaging toward the WSU team, because if you do, you end up with stupid 7 page threads like this one.

Why can't you just say good win and move on? WSU fans have been doing it on your UNI thread without picking you apart.

WSU is a Top 10 team and you have posters here coming to try and knock them down, even in winning. Why don't you save it for when WSU loses? Because WSU will eventually lose. But I'm going to go ahead and assume if you or any other Valley team was coming off a FF and ranked in the Top 10 in the nation, you probably wouldn't take constant criticism after wins well either. I think WSU fans have a little room to gloat considering the fact that they are carrying this conference right now. If WSU was gone, the Valley would be around the 20th best conference.

So please spare us with the nagginess. If you don't want to read about WSU, don't click on a WSU-related thread.

I, for one, have no issues with criticism, though I think some WSU posters do. Some good points of discussion which have been pointed out are as follows:

1) WSU is not deep. We have 12 eligible scholarship players as Bowles has been declared medically unfit. Two Shockers elected to Red Shirt. Derail Green, the Red Shirt freshman, has not yet adapted to D-1 ball. That leaves 9 players that get meaningful minutes. Wessel and Wiggins have disappeared early in the season, and Coleby/Carter/Lufile have been hit or miss all season. Marshall has been going with the hot hand. Baker is the starting SG and back-up PG. Cotton is the other starting wing and third string PG. We aren't deep.

2) Wessel is struggling. Evan can not shoot the ball right now. That has significantly limited his ability to contribute on a game-by-game basis. He needs to get it going soon.

3) Early isn't playing well. Early is not living up to the hype of being a pre-season All-American and pre-season MVC POY. His outside shot isn't falling and his shot selection is inconsistent at best. He can get to the rim, but can't finish with contact. Despite all of that, he's still averaging 14 and 6…which is basically exactly the same as what he did last year when he was first team All-Conference.

valleychamp wrote:The level of condescension and elitism by some of you Shocker posters is so astounding. It actually reads like satire, but it amazingly is not.

Note to other posters, you may as well not type any sort of comment that can be interpreted as desparaging toward the WSU team, because if you do, you end up with stupid 7 page threads like this one.

These "stupid 7 page threads" happen because people are trolling. The only difference between this thread and the three page UNI/VCU threat where agrinut claimed referees were the only reason UNI won is that UNI only has four fans on this board.

Your condescending post about the condescension of others will probably solve the problem, though. As will my, in turn, condescension to your condescension.

Wufan wrote:
1) WSU is not deep.

I think I would disagree with that.

If you look at a comparison of minutes between 2013 vs 2014 what you see if there is a difference in how the depth is laid out between 2013 and 2014 Shockers. The 2013 team had more depth at guard but the 2014 team has more at forward. If you start matching up WSU with other teams - WSU has more depth hands down.

The only real difference is at the #10 position where the 2013 team where obviously 2014 is getting nothing from Green. But then again we know that in these non-conference game Marshall only goes with who he trusts because they are so important. I think Green will either start contributing more or he won't be there next year.

Plus D. Carter is a juco transfer - everybody knows it takes to about after Christmas for JC's to get use to the speed and gain some consistency. Hopefully, for him Saturday is his coming out party.



caveat to graph: Baker and Wessel are excluded in 2013 since they were limited.

Snaggletooth wrote:

Wufan wrote:
1) WSU is not deep.

If you look at a comparison of minutes between 2013 vs 2014 what you see if there is a difference in how the depth is laid out between 2013 and 2014 Shockers. The 2013 team had more depth at guard but the 2014 team has more at forward. If you start matching up WSU with other teams - WSU has more depth hands down.

For me, the depth has nothing to do with minutes. Besides that you pulled Baker and Wessel, yet they ate up 26 games worth of starter minutes that weren't redistributed. Also, you obviously listed Orukpe as the starting center, yet Early clearly was the guy that got the most minutes at PF with Hall splitting time. Only two conclusions can be drawn from that graph:

WSU was more than 10 deep in 2012-13 (10 plus the unlisted Baker and Wessel).

WSU plays only nine guys this year.

Based on that, I would say that WSU isn't as deep as last year, but, minutes isn't what I'm talking about so we can stop talking about that all together. If anyone has bench points, rebounds, and assists from this team versus the nation, I'll listen.

This Shocker team has 1 PG and 4 wings. Two of those wings aren't scoring currently. This team has two forwards and two centers. If Wiggins or Wessel were scoring regularly and/or we had Bowles, I think I would look at this team as "deep". As it is, we're one short. Carter performing consistently would also change my tune. The 2013-14 Shocker team is deeper than most (or all) Valley teams, but not as deep as any of the last three Shocker teams and not as deep as many other top 25 teams.

Point is, as we talk about WSU on a national stage and we see threads talking about WSU in the top 10 and going undefeated, I think that the argument can be made against high rankings and tons of wins (relatively speaking) based on a lack of a deep bench ready to perform at the same level as the starters on a game by game basis.

valleychamp wrote:The level of condescension and elitism by some of you Shocker posters is so astounding. It actually reads like satire, but it amazingly is not.

Note to other posters, you may as well not type any sort of comment that can be interpreted as desparaging toward the WSU team, because if you do, you end up with stupid 7 page threads like this one.

No joke!

rlh04d wrote:

bleach wrote:

Wufan wrote:
You expected too much to think WSU was going to crush an athletic SEC team.

My expectations were formed reading this forum.
There is a thread about 25 pages long extolling the greatness of Baker and Van Vleet. There is another thread that has Early as the easy winner of POY. There is another thread about the Shox national rank. Etc, etc, etc.

So condensing your various viewpoints:

You think WSU is down from last year, yet think they could go undefeated heading into St. Louis, which would be one of the greatest seasons in basketball history. And have a problem with the national rank.

You think the starting four (Baker, Van Vleet, Early, Cotton) are "great," yet have a problem with a thread "extolling the greatness" of two of those and discussing Early as a POY candidate.

So ... okay?

No one's ever said WSU was unbeatable. You're creating a strawman and then badly trying to attack it.

Inaccuracies abound.
1)Never said I had a problem with the national rank.
2)Never said I had a problem with the thread on Baker and Van Vleet.
3)Never said the starting four were "Great".
4) Never said the thread naming Early POY was a problem.

I said my expectations were formed from those threads.
Since WSU is clearly better than the rest of the league, there only seems to be a total of ONE threat to them being unbeaten.
I think (based on the only game i've seen this year) this years team is down from last years because they appeared to lack depth overall and strength in the post compared to last year. If you dissagree, you can explain why.

Cdizzle wrote:

valleychamp wrote:The level of condescension and elitism by some of you Shocker posters is so astounding. It actually reads like satire, but it amazingly is not.

Note to other posters, you may as well not type any sort of comment that can be interpreted as desparaging toward the WSU team, because if you do, you end up with stupid 7 page threads like this one.

If pointing out records of my team is condescension, that really doesn't sound like my problem.

There is probably a 5:1 ratio of posters actively rooting against WSU to condescending WSU posters.

Me and my son were both rooting hard for WSU yesterday and in all non con games. Other than some jerk fans on this site, there is no reason to root against the Shox and Marshall until it would benefit my favorite team.