Who is the best MVC shooting guard?

[Wufan]

Ruder hasn't been mentioned even in the "others" category. That speaks pretty highly of the top tier.

[uniftw]

Did you read the part where I conceded Bohannon shot a better % ? And shooting % is obviously a big part of being a great shooter. Probably the most important part. But it's not the only factor. Did Bohannon hit the big shots that Ruder did? Did he see the continual defensive pressure that was put on Ruder? Maybe the answer is yes on both counts. I didn't see your guy enough to know that. I do know Ruder is the most consistent shooter I've seen in a long time.

At this point he's (Ruder) not even close to being the top 2 guard in the Valley. He needs to expand his game for that. But he's got the time, work ethic, and potential to do that IMO.

Bohannon got the Ali treament this year...

He touched the ball from 18-22 feet there was at least one set of hands in his face.

Much like Ali during his time here as the season went on the deeper his threes got because that is how he got better looks. The later in the game the shot was taken the more likely it was to go in.

[Aargh]

I will consider any SG other than Baker for this topic when I start reading published reports that they are not entering the NBA draft early.

Baker also plays PG, so he's got the mentality of looking for a pass for a "better" shot even if he has a shot he can take. So, which is more valuable, a guy who gets better stats, or a guy who looks for the best possible shot opportunity of the possession?

There are a lot of SG's in the league who are the "go to" guy on their teams. When they get the ball, they are expected to put it up. Baker doesn't play in that environment, so he's unlikely to be a stat monster.

I believe his W/L record in D1 games where he's suited up is 51-3. His losses are a game in the MVC tourney after missing 21 games prior to the tourney, to NC Louisville, and to NC runner-up Kentucky. How about those stats?

Sporting News ranks Baker as the #2 SG in the country. The guy who's #1? Aaron Harrison from Kentucky, who's the last SG to play against Baker.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2014-06-17/top-10-shooting-guards-aaron-harrison-ron-baker-wayne-selden-buddy-hield/slide/2

# 3 is Buddy Hield, who came out of Sunrise Christian Academy just outside of W.ichita. The same school that produced Zach Brown and Rauno Nurgen in this year's recruiting class.

Two days before the Tennessee game last year, Baker had a purple ankle about the size of a pineapple. He was expected to miss at least a couple of weeks. He played every game, which didn't give the ankle a chance to heal. He played most of the season on one bum wheel.

With two healthy ankles, the reports from this summer are that Baker is driving to the hoop and finishing with dunks when he gets there. In summer pickup games, he's playing against WSU's D and fouls aren't called. Anybody think their SG can drive on WSU's D and score at the hoop if fouls aren't called?

Baker is going to miss a lot of summer ball because he's been invited to a string of elite camps. Same for VanVleet.

[glm38]

I agree with you Aargh that Baker is our conference's best SG. But I think the NBA caliber card gets played too often. Sure that's a good barometer in some instances of a player's worth. But not always. There are many fine D1 players that for one reason or another just aren't right for the NBA. FVV may be one of them. He's certainly considered one of the best PG'S in the country yet he's not really on the NBA's radar. At least not yet. It's possible he may not ever be due to his size and perceived lack of athleticism.

[Rollbird5]

I will consider any SG other than Baker for this topic when I start reading published reports that they are not entering the NBA draft early.

Baker also plays PG, so he's got the mentality of looking for a pass for a "better" shot even if he has a shot he can take. So, which is more valuable, a guy who gets better stats, or a guy who looks for the best possible shot opportunity of the possession?

There are a lot of SG's in the league who are the "go to" guy on their teams. When they get the ball, they are expected to put it up. Baker doesn't play in that environment, so he's unlikely to be a stat monster.

I believe his W/L record in D1 games where he's suited up is 51-3. His losses are a game in the MVC tourney after missing 21 games prior to the tourney, to NC Louisville, and to NC runner-up Kentucky. How about those stats?

Sporting News ranks Baker as the #2 SG in the country. The guy who's #1? Aaron Harrison from Kentucky, who's the last SG to play against Baker.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2014-06-17/top-10-shooting-guards-aaron-harrison-ron-baker-wayne-selden-buddy-hield/slide/2

# 3 is Buddy Hield, who came out of Sunrise Christian Academy just outside of W.ichita. The same school that produced Zach Brown and Rauno Nurgen in this year's recruiting class.

Two days before the Tennessee game last year, Baker had a purple ankle about the size of a pineapple. He was expected to miss at least a couple of weeks. He played every game, which didn't give the ankle a chance to heal. He played most of the season on one bum wheel.

With two healthy ankles, the reports from this summer are that Baker is driving to the hoop and finishing with dunks when he gets there. In summer pickup games, he's playing against WSU's D and fouls aren't called. Anybody think their SG can drive on WSU's D and score at the hoop if fouls aren't called?

Baker is going to miss a lot of summer ball because he's been invited to a string of elite camps. Same for VanVleet.

It helps him playing in a weak valley this past year. No offense to Baker or you but no way he is #2 shooting guard in the nation. He's a fine player but at best maybe a 2nd round draft pick. That's just my opinion after seeing him play the last two years and watching alot of college basketball

[Cdizzle]

It helps him playing in a weak valley this past year. No offense to Baker or you but no way he is #2 shooting guard in the nation. He's a fine player but at best maybe a 2nd round draft pick. That's just my opinion after seeing him play the last two years and watching alot of college basketball

Watch more basketball. You may be right, Baker may not be the 2nd best shooting guard in the country. But your argument is horrible.

Below are Baker's career and 2013-14 stats against NCAA tournament teams:

Min FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3PT% FTM FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
30.2 3.8 7.9 0.5 2.1 5.1 0.4 3.6 4.4 0.8 4.8 1.9 0.5 1.1 2.3 1.4 13.4
30.6 5.0 9.3 0.6 2.6 5.7 0.5 4.0 4.9 0.8 5.0 2.1 0.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 16.6

Feel free to find me 2 SGs averaging 16.6 PPG against tournament teams while shooting 60% from the field, 50% from 3, 80% from FT and grabbing 5 RPG, with a positive A/T. Bonus points if you can find underclassmen.

[Wufan]

No offense to Baker or you but no way he is #2 shooting guard in the nation.

That was actually the assessment of the Sporting News, not Aargh or Ron. I'm sure there are varying opinions on it. That said, since you disagree, I'm curious as to your top 10.

[Rollbird5]

It helps him playing in a weak valley this past year. No offense to Baker or you but no way he is #2 shooting guard in the nation. He's a fine player but at best maybe a 2nd round draft pick. That's just my opinion after seeing him play the last two years and watching alot of college basketball

Watch more basketball. You may be right, Baker may not be the 2nd best shooting guard in the country. But your argument is horrible.

Below are Baker's career and 2013-14 stats against NCAA tournament teams:

Min FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3PT% FTM FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
30.2 3.8 7.9 0.5 2.1 5.1 0.4 3.6 4.4 0.8 4.8 1.9 0.5 1.1 2.3 1.4 13.4
30.6 5.0 9.3 0.6 2.6 5.7 0.5 4.0 4.9 0.8 5.0 2.1 0.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 16.6

Feel free to find me 2 SGs averaging 16.6 PPG against tournament teams while shooting 60% from the field, 50% from 3, 80% from FT and grabbing 5 RPG, with a positive A/T. Bonus points if you can find underclassmen.

I'm not arguing I'm just stating my opinion based on the eye test. That's what I like to use when I compare players. As for naming my top ten like wufan asked I'd have to get back to you on that and do some more research on that. When I watch big 10 big 12, acc basketball for example, if you were to put them in the valley and on a team like wichita they would excel at around the same rate i would predict, although there is no sure way to know. However, if you were to put baker on one of those teams and play some of the best teams in the nation on a nightly basis his numbers would more than likely suffer a little bit because of better and quicker guards defending him than he's used to in the valley. This is all my opinion I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong or right just stating my thoughts.

[Cdizzle]

It helps him playing in a weak valley this past year. No offense to Baker or you but no way he is #2 shooting guard in the nation. He's a fine player but at best maybe a 2nd round draft pick. That's just my opinion after seeing him play the last two years and watching alot of college basketball

Watch more basketball. You may be right, Baker may not be the 2nd best shooting guard in the country. But your argument is horrible.

Below are Baker's career and 2013-14 stats against NCAA tournament teams:

Min FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3PT% FTM FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
30.2 3.8 7.9 0.5 2.1 5.1 0.4 3.6 4.4 0.8 4.8 1.9 0.5 1.1 2.3 1.4 13.4
30.6 5.0 9.3 0.6 2.6 5.7 0.5 4.0 4.9 0.8 5.0 2.1 0.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 16.6

Feel free to find me 2 SGs averaging 16.6 PPG against tournament teams while shooting 60% from the field, 50% from 3, 80% from FT and grabbing 5 RPG, with a positive A/T. Bonus points if you can find underclassmen.

I'm not arguing I'm just stating my opinion based on the eye test. That's what I like to use when I compare players. As for naming my top ten like wufan asked I'd have to get back to you on that and do some more research on that. When I watch big 10 big 12, acc basketball for example, if you were to put them in the valley and on a team like wichita they would excel at around the same rate i would predict, although there is no sure way to know. However, if you were to put baker on one of those teams and play some of the best teams in the nation on a nightly basis his numbers would more than likely suffer a little bit because of better and quicker guards defending him than he's used to in the valley. This is all my opinion I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong or right just stating my thoughts.

Did you miss the part where I pointed out that his numbers are actually BETTER when playing against the best teams in the nation? The talent on these B10, B12, ACC teams is not higher than that on the WSU team, which is why they spent the year ranked in the Top 5.

[mvcfan]

It helps him playing in a weak valley this past year. No offense to Baker or you but no way he is #2 shooting guard in the nation. He's a fine player but at best maybe a 2nd round draft pick. That's just my opinion after seeing him play the last two years and watching alot of college basketball

Watch more basketball. You may be right, Baker may not be the 2nd best shooting guard in the country. But your argument is horrible.

Below are Baker's career and 2013-14 stats against NCAA tournament teams:

Min FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3PT% FTM FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
30.2 3.8 7.9 0.5 2.1 5.1 0.4 3.6 4.4 0.8 4.8 1.9 0.5 1.1 2.3 1.4 13.4
30.6 5.0 9.3 0.6 2.6 5.7 0.5 4.0 4.9 0.8 5.0 2.1 0.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 16.6

Feel free to find me 2 SGs averaging 16.6 PPG against tournament teams while shooting 60% from the field, 50% from 3, 80% from FT and grabbing 5 RPG, with a positive A/T. Bonus points if you can find underclassmen.

I'm not arguing I'm just stating my opinion based on the eye test. That's what I like to use when I compare players. As for naming my top ten like wufan asked I'd have to get back to you on that and do some more research on that. When I watch big 10 big 12, acc basketball for example, if you were to put them in the valley and on a team like wichita they would excel at around the same rate i would predict, although there is no sure way to know. However, if you were to put baker on one of those teams and play some of the best teams in the nation on a nightly basis his numbers would more than likely suffer a little bit because of better and quicker guards defending him than he's used to in the valley. This is all my opinion I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong or right just stating my thoughts.

How did your eye test do when put in 20 against the Kentucky Wildcats who were runnerup National Champs? Thàt was not against a weak Valley. If your eyes didn't see it you may need another exam.