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bigdawg wrote:WSU fans get so defensive. The point I'm making is that your trend line looks really good in the one year of league play without the team that owned the league for the past decade or more. That's my point. It's pretty simple.

One year? I'd say WSU has done pretty well for themselves in the last half-decade and has held their own or exceeded the play of Creighton, both head-to-head and in the standings during that time period.

No one is getting defensive except for your lame attempt at trolling a thread.

Championz wrote:

bigdawg wrote:WSU fans get so defensive. The point I'm making is that your trend line looks really good in the one year of league play without the team that owned the league for the past decade or more. That's my point. It's pretty simple.

One year? I'd say WSU has done pretty well for themselves in the last half-decade and has held their own or exceeded the play of Creighton, both head-to-head and in the standings during that time period.

No one is getting defensive except for your lame attempt at trolling a thread.

Yawn...

What I'm getting from this thread is that fans would rather have their teams finish 3rd/4th and within 4-5 games of 1st than finish 2nd/3rd and finish 6-8 games back.

There is an awful lot of "WSU isn't all that good because they couldn't go undefeated until Creighton wasn't in the league any more." That brings a couple of things to mind.

1. What does that say about the rest of the teams in the league?
2. If your argument ever hinges on "well you definitely wouldn't have gone undefeated if xyz" and your team had more than 1 loss you should probably reconsider using that as smack talk.

lol at saluki fan using a departed team who wouldn't piss on carbondale if it were on fire as a proxy for issuing pot shots.

non-wsu schools should miss creighton this year. easy home w's are in demand in the valley.

I don't think there's a correlation between missing Creighton in the league and having an opinion in any direction on what Wichita means to the league. People are stretching out the meaning of this thread - in both directions.

IMO.

I don't think Creighton would have added much excitement - or even interest - this year. With the young McDermott gone and the old McDermott still there... Throw in the graduation of Gibbs and Wragge, and CU looks like (at best) a mid-pack Valley team this year.

The off-topic portion of this thread has focused on WSU. WSU was a #1 seed in the NCAA's last year. Anybody remember the last #1 seed in the tourney from the Valley? Try Larry Bird. Prior to that it was when most of the current Valley was still D2.

From that #1 seed WSU is returning a part-time frontcourt starter, Carter, who averaged 7.9 points and 4.5 boards. Carter was the #5 scorer on the team.

After that WSU returns the MVC DPoY in Cotton. The Shox return a Jr. PG (VanVleet) who looks like a consensus pre-season 1st team AA. The Shox return Baker, who is getting a lot of pre-season hype as about a 3rd team AA and is being projected as a likely 1st round NBA pick after his Jr year.

When an MVC team returns 4 starters from an NCAA #1 seed, including the MVC DPoY, two AA candidates, an early entry first round draft pick...fans of that team are going to expect to do well in the Valley.

With Creighton being an excellent program for awhile now even without big tourney runs they have been missed and will be missed anyone who says otherwise is crazy, always brought a nice size crowd to away games and archmadness. They did lose their best players but it is a program that always seems to bounce back and get good players for continued success. With them being in the big east (not the same big east as before but power conference still) and a known basketball program they will get very good recruits, probably better ones than they would have if still playing in mvc. I don't think they will be down for long if at all.

Rollbird5 wrote:With Creighton being an excellent program for awhile now even without big tourney runs they have been missed and will be missed anyone who says otherwise is crazy, always brought a nice size crowd to away games and archmadness. They did lose their best players but it is a program that always seems to bounce back and get good players for continued success. With them being in the big east (not the same big east as before but power conference still) and a known basketball program they will get very good recruits, probably better ones than they would have if still playing in mvc. I don't think they will be down for long if at all.

I agree that Creighton brought some excitement to the Valley and they are definitely missed. But they didn't just not have "big tourney runs". They didn't have any kind of tourney run at all. EVER. To me that really taints their Valley legacy.

And I could be wrong but I think they are in for some hard times in the next few years.

glm38 wrote:

Rollbird5 wrote:With Creighton being an excellent program for awhile now even without big tourney runs they have been missed and will be missed anyone who says otherwise is crazy, always brought a nice size crowd to away games and archmadness. They did lose their best players but it is a program that always seems to bounce back and get good players for continued success. With them being in the big east (not the same big east as before but power conference still) and a known basketball program they will get very good recruits, probably better ones than they would have if still playing in mvc. I don't think they will be down for long if at all.

I agree that Creighton brought some excitement to the Valley and they are definitely missed. But they didn't just not have "big tourney runs". That didn't have any kind of tourney run at all. EVER. To me that really taints their Valley legacy.

And I could be wrong but I think they are in for some hard times in the next few years.

This. CU as a program was good for the Valley. Their basketball team over the last 10 years is comparable to UNI and WSU, with the only distinguishable difference being their ability to win Arch Madness and bow out in the first weekend of March Madness.

Wufan wrote:

glm38 wrote:

Rollbird5 wrote:With Creighton being an excellent program for awhile now even without big tourney runs they have been missed and will be missed anyone who says otherwise is crazy, always brought a nice size crowd to away games and archmadness. They did lose their best players but it is a program that always seems to bounce back and get good players for continued success. With them being in the big east (not the same big east as before but power conference still) and a known basketball program they will get very good recruits, probably better ones than they would have if still playing in mvc. I don't think they will be down for long if at all.

I agree that Creighton brought some excitement to the Valley and they are definitely missed. But they didn't just not have "big tourney runs". That didn't have any kind of tourney run at all. EVER. To me that really taints their Valley legacy.

And I could be wrong but I think they are in for some hard times in the next few years.

This. CU as a program was good for the Valley. Their basketball team over the last 10 years is comparable to UNI and WSU, with the only distinguishable difference being their ability to win Arch Madness and bow out in the first weekend of March Madness.

It should not have taken until this page for this to be mentioned. Strong program that definitely helped the MVC out but they had no real postseason success under McDermott or Altman other than getting a berth. That's an awesome and enviable accomplishment on its own but let's not forget that the point is to win games in the tournament, not just pat yourself on the back