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In the last three years, WSU is 5-3 in the NCAA. The Shockers are 2-2 against teams they are favored against and 3-1 against teams that were favored over them.

In the last decade, WSU is 7-4, 5-1 in games we weren't favored and 2-3 in games we were.

VCU is 8-5 over the last decade and only played once on the second weekend.

Butler is 14-6

George Mason was 5-3.

Not sure how VCU has done more, but George Mason just as good. Truth is they are all basically equal with Butler having a significant advantage.

Back to your original supposition that none of those three have shed the label despite moving up in conference, makes it sound like you believe that major programs are not conference specific.

Also, none of those three have anywhere near the financial resources as WSU.

So I will ask Ghost, how do you define a major program?

What I said is that VCU, Butler and George Mason were considered mid majors at least until they moved up in conference. I also said that most publications do not treat the A10 as a midmajor conference.

To answer your question, I think everyone in a one bid league is a mid major. Right now I'd say that WSU is to the MVC as Butler was to the Horizon.

Ghost wrote:To answer your question, I think everyone in a one bid league is a mid major. Right now I'd say that WSU is to the MVC as Butler was to the Horizon.

This is accurate.

Wufan said, "In the last three years, WSU is 5-3 in the NCAA."

This is correct, but it needs to be noted that 4 of the wins came in one year; the other years Wsu had zero wins and one win. That seems to support the argument that WSU is a mid major that had one really, really great year.

Ghost wrote:Wufan said, "In the last three years, WSU is 5-3 in the NCAA."

This is correct, but it needs to be noted that 4 of the wins came in one year; the other years Wsu had zero wins and one win. That seems to support the argument that WSU is a mid major that had one really, really great year.

Since you already defined a major as playing in a multi-bid league, and we don't there is no reason to continue your hotly held contention that WSU is inferior. Go ahead and run the numbers for VCU, BU, and George Mason for the past decade. We will be one better than Mason and one worse than VCU. I disagree with your assessment, however there s no point arguing since we don't agree on the definition.

Ghost wrote:Wufan said, "In the last three years, WSU is 5-3 in the NCAA."

This is correct, but it needs to be noted that 4 of the wins came in one year; the other years Wsu had zero wins and one win. That seems to support the argument that WSU is a mid major that had one really, really great year.

BTW, it you remove the best year from the three aforementioned in the last 3 years. VCU IS 1-2, Butler is 0-0, George Mason is 0-0. If you give them their best year back, VCU is 2-3, Butler is 1-1, GM is still 0-0.

It's become painfully obvious that Ghost is a disgruntled troll with an ax to grind.

I love how he uses the point that since most media members don't consider the A-10 mid-major, then it is gospel. But if most media doesn't include WSU as mid-major, it's not the same.

Gonzaga is not mid-major. Memphis was not mid-major. WSU is not mid-major. The blanket conference affiliation arguments don't fly. WSU is not like or run like any other program in the Valley. They aren't mid-major for having to play 9 mid-major schools twice in a year. It's such a lame argument and is only used to discredit WSU. It doesn't even make any sense.

But then again, a lot of Valley fans want to consider WSU an equal so it doesn't make their programs look inferior.

I'm curious as to what school Ghost is a fan of. Probably not even a fan of somebody in this conference.

This is really kind of a pointless and idiotic discussion. Regardless of any label the Shockers have been an elite program the last few years. The big questions to me are: can they climb even higher? And/ or sustain their current excellence?

Undoubtedly there is some jealousy among rival MVC fans. That's only natural isn't it. We all want our teams at that level. But personally I love having a team from MY conference playing at an elite level.

Ghost wrote:What I said is that VCU, Butler and George Mason were considered mid majors at least until they moved up in conference. I also said that most publications do not treat the A10 as a midmajor conference.

To answer your question, I think everyone in a one bid league is a mid major. Right now I'd say that WSU is to the MVC as Butler was to the Horizon.

Even in a weakened state, the MVC in any incarnation is better than the Horizon was in any incarnation.