Next Coach for SIU?

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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby rlh04d » January 11th, 2015, 1:27 pm

glm38 wrote:The main gripe was simply not making the ncaa tourney for 9 years. We always seemed to lose the "big games". That wasn't the usual for MSU during the Spoonhour and Alford years. Barry was and is a good guy in the opinion of most Bears fans.

I understand that.

And in the seven years since, MoSt still hasn't made the NCAA tourney.

So ... again, why the hate on Barry specifically? I could understand the logic if MoSt was clearly succeeding without him, but they're not. Barry's nine seasons were clearly superior to the seven since he left.

MoSt has one NCAA tournament appearance in the last 23 years. Sure, be disappointed that Barry didn't change that, but clearly the problem is bigger than one man. Even that 1999 team that got to the Sweet 16 wasn't a great team -- a #12 seed, absolutely loaded with upper classmen (10), which to me is the kind of team that a guy looking to move on puts together, school be damned. And hell, if you want Steve Alford back, UCLA will probably fire him soon.

(I'm not at all opposed to MoSt moving on from Barry when they did, either. Cuonzo Martin was clearly a good move, and I'm okay with taking a risk because you're not happy with "good enough." I just don't get the clear dislike for a guy that did a pretty good job.)
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby Cdizzle » January 11th, 2015, 2:18 pm

I'm also not sure you'd see a team with a resume' like a couple of Barry's MSU teams left out of the tournament any more. Too much scrutiny to leave out teams with RPIs in the 20s.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby glm38 » January 11th, 2015, 3:00 pm

rlh04d wrote:
glm38 wrote:The main gripe was simply not making the ncaa tourney for 9 years. We always seemed to lose the "big games". That wasn't the usual for MSU during the Spoonhour and Alford years. Barry was and is a good guy in the opinion of most Bears fans.

I understand that.

And in the seven years since, MoSt still hasn't made the NCAA tourney.

So ... again, why the hate on Barry specifically? I could understand the logic if MoSt was clearly succeeding without him, but they're not. Barry's nine seasons were clearly superior to the seven since he left.

MoSt has one NCAA tournament appearance in the last 23 years. Sure, be disappointed that Barry didn't change that, but clearly the problem is bigger than one man. Even that 1999 team that got to the Sweet 16 wasn't a great team -- a #12 seed, absolutely loaded with upper classmen (10), which to me is the kind of team that a guy looking to move on puts together, school be damned. And hell, if you want Steve Alford back, UCLA will probably fire him soon.

(I'm not at all opposed to MoSt moving on from Barry when they did, either. Cuonzo Martin was clearly a good move, and I'm okay with taking a risk because you're not happy with "good enough." I just don't get the clear dislike for a guy that did a pretty good job.)


Again you are seeing the "hate" from a few hard core fans. Not from the majority. Remember when someone on this board ( I think it was MVC john) predicted that when SIU / Barry came back to Spfld it would be a circus and Barry would be booed mercilessly? Didn't happen. In fact it was the opposite. Loud cheering with nary a boo or negative comment that I or anyone else could hear.

Personally I think Barry is a great guy and a decent recruiter and coach. He's just not a guy to get you to the next level.

I think most times when a coach leaves involuntarily or for a better job there some in the fan base that have some animosity isn't there? I think I've seen some snide comments lobbed at Turgeon on Shockernet. Different circumstances of the coach leaving but it still illustrates the point because there's really no reason for that either but I doubt it reflects the opinion of the majority of Shocker fans.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby BCPanther » January 11th, 2015, 3:15 pm

Barry also left Kyle Weems for Cuonzo. Take him away and Cuonzo doesn't look anywhere as good.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby glm38 » January 11th, 2015, 3:24 pm

BCPanther wrote:Barry also left Kyle Weems for Cuonzo. Take him away and Cuonzo doesn't look anywhere as good.


He was there for Cuonzo but he was a fairly lightly regarded recruit. Cuonzo and staff developed him into the player he became. Kyle says that himself. No comparison between Barry and Cuonzo. Or Cuonzo and Lusk to this point.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby bleach » January 11th, 2015, 3:30 pm

Wanting Barry gone and being glad he's gone is not hate. I read post after post on here about how foolish teams are that accept mediocrity, brag about it, or are excited by beating horrible teams. The Bears fans that wanted Barry gone knew we would never be where we were with Spoon, Alford, or even Martin if Barry stayed. The same is true now with Lusk.

What Alford and Martin accomplished in 3 years was more than Barry produced in 9. If we should just be content with not being horrible then SIU should keep Barry forever. If not then it was more than time for Barry to go and SIU should expect no better.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby PantherSigEp » January 11th, 2015, 3:40 pm

This is all fine and dandy but most of this heated conversation stemmed from the troll saying that Lowery should come back. That's just idiotic.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby rlh04d » January 11th, 2015, 6:15 pm

bleach wrote:Wanting Barry gone and being glad he's gone is not hate. I read post after post on here about how foolish teams are that accept mediocrity, brag about it, or are excited by beating horrible teams. The Bears fans that wanted Barry gone knew we would never be where we were with Spoon, Alford, or even Martin if Barry stayed. The same is true now with Lusk.

What Alford and Martin accomplished in 3 years was more than Barry produced in 9. If we should just be content with not being horrible then SIU should keep Barry forever. If not then it was more than time for Barry to go and SIU should expect no better.

Like I said, that's not what I mean. I completely respect teams that gamble getting rid of a coach producing successful results because they aren't capable of moving forward. I think Nebraska did the same thing this season in football and I respect it. Although I do think Nebraska has a much more realistic hope of higher results than MoSt does.

I just don't see the point of continually taking shots at the guy. Particularly when he was a good coach who had some good teams that should have made the NCAA tournament, ran the program with class, and had a very high floor (albeit a low ceiling as well).
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby rlh04d » January 11th, 2015, 6:17 pm

PantherSigEp wrote:This is all fine and dandy but most of this heated conversation stemmed from the troll saying that Lowery should come back. That's just idiotic.

I thought we had just decided that was Lowery or his son?

No sane person would ever want Lowery back.
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Re: Next Coach for SIU?

Postby rlh04d » January 11th, 2015, 6:20 pm

glm38 wrote:I think most times when a coach leaves involuntarily or for a better job there some in the fan base that have some animosity isn't there? I think I've seen some snide comments lobbed at Turgeon on Shockernet. Different circumstances of the coach leaving but it still illustrates the point because there's really no reason for that either but I doubt it reflects the opinion of the majority of Shocker fans.

I think drawing a correlation between a guy that was forced out and a guy that essentially stated that he had done all he could "at this level" and left for a B12 team, while leaving the cupboard completely bare and taking recruits with him to his new school, is a massive reach.

There is nothing to be mad at Barry for. There are clearly things that WSU fans can dislike Turgeon for, even while thanking him for turning the program around and building the foundation for what Marshall has been able to do. Turgeon left the program in bad shape.
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