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while I do think WSU will drop a couple games in Valley play this year, I don't necessarily think it has to be a road game. WSU is one of, if not the best, road team in the country. They love going on the road and are highly successful. What will beat WSU is a team with size and depth in the post and long athletes on the perimeter that can push Ron and Fred out and keep them from getting easy shots. I'm not sure who those teams are, but on paper they look like UNI and ILLState. On top of that, they better have the ability to run an efficient offense becuase the Shox D won't make it easy.

Wufan wrote:Deserving: WSU/UNI (WSU is ahead based on previous performance and ranking, but that's it)

WSU's also ahead in:

- Kenpom Ranking (11 vs 32)
- Kenpom Offense (13 vs 24)
- Kenpom Defense (25 vs 66)
- RPI Ranking (3 vs 24)
- Kenpom SOS (36 vs 221)
- Standard SOS (6 vs 150)
- Raw scoring offense (75.3 vs 69.4)
- Scoring margin (16.3 vs 10.4)
- RPI-based resume (vs top 25: 1-0 vs 0-1; vs top 50: 2-1 vs 0-1; vs top 100: 3-1 vs 2-1)

Northern Iowa does lead WSU in FT% and FG% (48% vs 46%). They're tied in points allowed per game (59).

I know you're trying to be unbiased, but WSU is simply ahead, based on ... well, everything. Previous performance is irrelevant to this year. This year WSU is a better team than UNI, thus far, completely divorced of previous seasons.

You can choose which of those rankings you value, but for me, 185 spot difference in KenPom advanced SOS and yet WSU still has nearly a 6 point better scoring margin (while taking the air out of the ball in all but two or three games) is pretty damn impressive.

I say TWO--not because Shockers have regressed--I feel they have not--Just that the Valley is better--AND most thought it would not be. Real noise being made in North Central Iowa. North Side Chicago, Central Illinois and East Indiana. AND there could be a surprise among the rest for a one game explosion.

rlh04d wrote:

Wufan wrote:Deserving: WSU/UNI (WSU is ahead based on previous performance and ranking, but that's it)

WSU's also ahead in:

- Kenpom Ranking (11 vs 32)
- Kenpom Offense (13 vs 24)
- Kenpom Defense (25 vs 66)
- RPI Ranking (3 vs 24)
- Kenpom SOS (36 vs 221)
- Standard SOS (6 vs 150)
- Raw scoring offense (75.3 vs 69.4)
- Scoring margin (16.3 vs 10.4)
- RPI-based resume (vs top 25: 1-0 vs 0-1; vs top 50: 2-1 vs 0-1; vs top 100: 3-1 vs 2-1)

Northern Iowa does lead WSU in FT% and FG% (48% vs 46%). They're tied in points allowed per game (59).

I know you're trying to be unbiased, but WSU is simply ahead, based on ... well, everything. Previous performance is irrelevant to this year. This year WSU is a better team than UNI, thus far, completely divorced of previous seasons.

You can choose which of those rankings you value, but for me, 185 spot difference in KenPom advanced SOS and yet WSU still has nearly a 6 point better scoring margin (while taking the air out of the ball in all but two or three games) is pretty damn impressive.

Well, that's hard to argue with. I guess what I meant was that UNI is a really good team.

WSU vs UNI - Shox are the better team no question right now. The head to heads will be really interesting though. In past years Tuttle hasn't looked so good agaijst the Shox. This yesr could be very different.

In a year when the Bears suck im just really glad there are two really good Valley teams and several more on the upswing. Should be a really interesting conference season with a lot of drama and some surprises.

BirdmanBB wrote:

2livewu wrote:

ShockValue wrote:I said 3. It's hard to say I've been unimpressed considering the overall start, but we're not the same team we were last year. FVV seems hesitant to shoot, Baker hasn't improved, and we probably miss Cle more than I expected. I think 3-4 losses is very reasonable and possibly more if we can't find a way to score.

Outside of UNI, someone will have to be WAY better than they've been AND WSU will have to be off their game...I can't believe a WSU fan just said that.

Wow. Haven't even lost a game yet to someone outside of UNI and you are already installing an "excuse." You can't believe a WSU fan would say that. Geez. A WSU fan with reason is a breath of fresh air these days. They a few and far between. The arrogance is at all time high as always. It's become a carrying card synonymous with being a shocker fan. Get over yourself.

If you would like to see arrogance, take a look at your own board.

Just because a WSU fan says WSU has won 21 straight games against Valley teams so they don't see too many losses coming doesn't make them arrogant. It just means they know a fact and are using it to guide their current judgement. If stating facts has become "arrogant" that sounds mostly like a problem for folks not associated with WSU.

I picked 3.'

Three losses from these possibilities.
UNI- Likely
UE - Likely
Other games - Upset

BirdmanBB wrote:

2livewu wrote:

ShockValue wrote:I said 3. It's hard to say I've been unimpressed considering the overall start, but we're not the same team we were last year. FVV seems hesitant to shoot, Baker hasn't improved, and we probably miss Cle more than I expected. I think 3-4 losses is very reasonable and possibly more if we can't find a way to score.

Outside of UNI, someone will have to be WAY better than they've been AND WSU will have to be off their game...I can't believe a WSU fan just said that.

Wow. Haven't even lost a game yet to someone outside of UNI and you are already installing an "excuse." You can't believe a WSU fan would say that. Geez. A WSU fan with reason is a breath of fresh air these days. They a few and far between. The arrogance is at all time high as always. It's become a carrying card synonymous with being a shocker fan. Get over yourself.

I voted for 6 losses. "Marshall is in over his head in this conference...Marshall just recruits a bunch of juco athletes, not basketball players." WSU will prove those statements from days gone by painfully truthful this season.

Being down by double-digits late against Detroit and Alabama is a potential sign of struggles to come. Great teams in this great conference won't let WSU slop their way to wins. WSU is weak on the boards and too inexperienced on the bench. Mock and Tuttle may set arena records when WSU rolls into town.

BirdmanBB, is this the kind of raw truth you're looking for? Merry Christmas! This Shocker team might be the team of your dreams - a .500 record and failure to make the NCAA tournament. That kind of collapse will surely dampen the baseless arrogance of those Shocker fans and boost the chances of your beloved Redbirds making their own run to the Final Four.

I just can't wait for the 3 UNI-WSU games. They are going to be terrific basketball games.

BCPanther wrote:I just can't wait for the 3 UNI-WSU games. They are going to be terrific basketball games.

Two plus games. A lot of basketball to be played before talking about St Louis. WSU has the better backcourt and UNI the better front court and depth. I expect both games to be hard-nosed defensive battles. If both teams perform well (like 15-2 or better) expect ESPN game day to be in Wichita when the Panthers come to town on February 28.