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Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

aceslifer wrote:Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

Then make an argument for that, not some flagrant comment about him being the "weakest AA ever." If I thought it would be worth my time I would delve into the past and come up with several "weaker" examples, but I'm considering the source on this one.

Now, I will address your more recent post. I agree 100%...but the year isn't over with yet.

See, wasn't that easy. Don't act like a tool and you won't be treated as such. Good day.

aceslifer wrote:Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

I think a pretty strong argument could be made that FVV isn't a 1st team Valley guy this year. He'll probably get put on there because of past performance (called the "Weems" effect), but he hasn't been great this season.

BUDude wrote:

aceslifer wrote:Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

I think a pretty strong argument could be made that FVV isn't a 1st team Valley guy this year. He'll probably get put on there because of past performance (called the "Weems" effect), but he hasn't been great this season.

Eh, his FG% is really the only black mark on his resume- I think he's definitely still the cream of the crop at PG this year.

1st in the league in assists, 2nd in steals, and a 3.7:1 assist-to-turnover ratio while running the offense for the team presently leading the MVC.

And although 33.3% from beyond the arc is disappointing for FVV, it's not exactly Gottlieb territory and has seen a steady upward trend since mid-December. He probably finishes around 36% from 3FG which is solid if unspectacular, and it is far from the biggest asset he brings to the team.

FYI and to show how huge the gulf is between FVV and the rest of league's PGs when it comes to taking care of and distributing the ball:

Assist-to-Turnover Ratio League Leaders:

1. FVV (99 assists, 27 turnovers, 3.7:1 ratio)
2. Dorrian Williams (84 assists, 45 turnovers, 1.9:1 ratio)

Just lol at that Grand Canyon sized divide. Source: http://www.mvc.org/mbb/stats/CONFLDRS.HTM#conf.wki

BUDude wrote:

aceslifer wrote:Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

I think a pretty strong argument could be made that FVV isn't a 1st team Valley guy this year. He'll probably get put on there because of past performance (called the "Weems" effect), but he hasn't been great this season.

I don't totally disagree with this. VanVleet is basically the same player this year that he was last year except for shooting percentage. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/117130/ and he is the PG for a 16-2 team instead of a 31-0 team. That is probably enough to knock him out of the POY category against Baker and Tuttle, but probably not enough to knock him off of the first team.

BUDude wrote:

aceslifer wrote:Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

I think a pretty strong argument could be made that FVV isn't a 1st team Valley guy this year. He'll probably get put on there because of past performance (called the "Weems" effect), but he hasn't been great this season.

I can see that if you overvalue offensive statistics. He's still by FAR the best PG in the Valley, and dominating assists, A:TO, and #2 in steals.

More importantly, it's early, and his numbers are clearly trending upwards. His stats through six Valley games so far:

47.1% FG%
50% 3PT%
86.7% FT%
4.3 RPG
5.8 APG
1.3 SPG
3.5:1 A:TO

He is having more foul trouble in Valley play so far, though. I have a feeling his numbers will have evened out pretty well by the end of the year. He was definitely in a shooting funk early.

BUDude wrote:

aceslifer wrote:Didn't say he wasn't 1st team all-MVC, said he wasn't 1st team all-American. Probably not even 2nd team all-american

I think a pretty strong argument could be made that FVV isn't a 1st team Valley guy this year. He'll probably get put on there because of past performance (called the "Weems" effect), but he hasn't been great this season.

Ok, then let's just put it out there. Who's your top 5?