Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby AndShock » April 2nd, 2015, 7:37 pm

March wrote:Fun Fact: the total and average reported attendance numbers for Alabama and Wichita State for 2014. I thought it was amusing how close they were. Note that WSU's Arena has only 10,506 seats! Capacity for Alabama is 15,316.

From: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketb ... d/2014.pdf

35. Alabama 17 182,825 10,754
36. Wichita St. 17 182,452 10,732


This is due to inflated numbers from football fans buying season tickets to boost their priority points. If you look at pictures from Bama's games it's clear they don't even come close to 10k butts in the seats.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby March » April 2nd, 2015, 10:47 pm

Yeah, that's just what was reported, but even if they were not inflated the numbers favor WSU by a huge margin. I think there is only about ten schools that average full capacity all season (another fun fact is VCU is one of those schools too). I would be surprised if it was more than half attendance an average night for UA.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby ISUBirds89 » April 3rd, 2015, 5:25 am

AndShock wrote:
March wrote:Fun Fact: the total and average reported attendance numbers for Alabama and Wichita State for 2014. I thought it was amusing how close they were. Note that WSU's Arena has only 10,506 seats! Capacity for Alabama is 15,316.

From: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketb ... d/2014.pdf

35. Alabama 17 182,825 10,754
36. Wichita St. 17 182,452 10,732


This is due to inflated numbers from football fans buying season tickets to boost their priority points. If you look at pictures from Bama's games it's clear they don't even come close to 10k butts in the seats.

Similar to Bradley reporting sold tickets rather than butts in seats then. They like to brag about their artifificially inflated attendance too.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby WSpringsBird » April 3rd, 2015, 7:16 am

I do not know what the BU administration says about attendance, but the people on Bradleyfans.com have been talking about the gap between reported and actual attendance all year.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby UNIFanSince1983 » April 3rd, 2015, 1:06 pm

rlh04d wrote:One very interesting thing I learned about this: I'm fairly certain Marshall would be at Alabama right now if it was up to him. I think this decision is on his family. I have a feeling both of his kids campaigned hard to stay in Wichita. So in that sense, I'm not sure it would be about the prestige of those jobs, either. Marshall obviously values the opinions of his family very highly.

But they'll be out of school before too much longer, and I don't see them being around to talk Marshall out of taking one of those jobs if they come open in the next few years.

Still, there are maybe four jobs we could ever worry about losing Marshall to now. Kentucky, Florida, UNC, Duke. Who would ever expect that to be the limitations of what a coach would leave a Valley team for?


Yeah family does have a lot to do with it. I think that is a lot of the reason Jake is still around in Cedar Falls. He does always talk about how much Dawn and his kids love it here.

I do think though if a program like Kentucky or Duke or UNC came calling he may try a little harder to get his family to buy into that one.

I wonder what were to happen if he were still at WSU and Kansas tried calling.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby Cdizzle » April 3rd, 2015, 1:27 pm

UNIFanSince1983 wrote:
rlh04d wrote:One very interesting thing I learned about this: I'm fairly certain Marshall would be at Alabama right now if it was up to him. I think this decision is on his family. I have a feeling both of his kids campaigned hard to stay in Wichita. So in that sense, I'm not sure it would be about the prestige of those jobs, either. Marshall obviously values the opinions of his family very highly.

But they'll be out of school before too much longer, and I don't see them being around to talk Marshall out of taking one of those jobs if they come open in the next few years.

Still, there are maybe four jobs we could ever worry about losing Marshall to now. Kentucky, Florida, UNC, Duke. Who would ever expect that to be the limitations of what a coach would leave a Valley team for?


Yeah family does have a lot to do with it. I think that is a lot of the reason Jake is still around in Cedar Falls. He does always talk about how much Dawn and his kids love it here.

I do think though if a program like Kentucky or Duke or UNC came calling he may try a little harder to get his family to buy into that one.

I wonder what were to happen if he were still at WSU and Kansas tried calling.

We all know the phones don't work between Lawrence and Wichita. It's why they've never managed to get a game scheduled.

But seriously, KU won't touch Marshall with a 162 mile long pole. Not now. Not ever. If you think Illinois State fans hate Marshall, you should read the KU board.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby uniftw » April 3rd, 2015, 1:50 pm

rlh04d wrote:
LanceShock wrote:The real crazy thing is that WSU will pay Marshall more next year than it would take some other Valley schools, ie. Missouri State, to fire their coach.

No, the REAL crazy thing is that WSU will pay Marshall nearly as much as every other Valley team COMBINED will pay their coaches next season.

Ben Jacobson, N. Iowa $900,000
Dan Muller, Illinois State $401,200
Paul Lusk, Missouri State $305,333
Barry Hinson, Southern Illinois $325,000
Greg Lansing, Indiana State $219-262,000 (not sure)
Ray Giacoletti, Drake $400-450,000
Marty Simmons, Evansville $180-200,000
Brian Wardle, Bradley ~$700,000 (based on what Ford started at)
Porter Moser, Loyola ~$150-250,000 (This is a complete shot in the dark. I have no idea what Loyola pays him.)

Gregg Marshall: $3.3 million
Everyone else combined: $3.58-3.79 million

If you leave off Jacobson at UNI, it's possible that Marshall now makes comparable to the total combined coaching staffs of every non-UNI Valley team, head and assistant coaches.
I'm not going to argue Marshall's worth to WSU...but with a 3.3mpy tag on his head anything less than a title in the next 3-5 years is sure to ultimately be deemed a failure and overpaying...as well as anything less than a s16/elite eight every single season on the way....right?
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby Cdizzle » April 3rd, 2015, 1:59 pm

uniftw wrote:
rlh04d wrote:
LanceShock wrote:The real crazy thing is that WSU will pay Marshall more next year than it would take some other Valley schools, ie. Missouri State, to fire their coach.

No, the REAL crazy thing is that WSU will pay Marshall nearly as much as every other Valley team COMBINED will pay their coaches next season.

Ben Jacobson, N. Iowa $900,000
Dan Muller, Illinois State $401,200
Paul Lusk, Missouri State $305,333
Barry Hinson, Southern Illinois $325,000
Greg Lansing, Indiana State $219-262,000 (not sure)
Ray Giacoletti, Drake $400-450,000
Marty Simmons, Evansville $180-200,000
Brian Wardle, Bradley ~$700,000 (based on what Ford started at)
Porter Moser, Loyola ~$150-250,000 (This is a complete shot in the dark. I have no idea what Loyola pays him.)

Gregg Marshall: $3.3 million
Everyone else combined: $3.58-3.79 million

If you leave off Jacobson at UNI, it's possible that Marshall now makes comparable to the total combined coaching staffs of every non-UNI Valley team, head and assistant coaches.
I'm not going to argue Marshall's worth to WSU...but with a 3.3mpy tag on his head anything less than a title in the next 3-5 years is sure to ultimately be deemed a failure and overpaying...as well as anything less than a s16/elite eight every single season on the way....right?

I keep reading this. Why do people assume WSU fans suddenly have unrealistic expectations? I'm don't even think I "expect" us to make the NCAAs every year yet. A lot of the time? Sure.

Will I eventually get tired of losing in the first round, year after year after year? Yep, but it will take a while. I think, for now at least, enough people still remember the 90s. Part of never going back there is holding the program to a high standard. Another part of it is always remembering to enjoy the ride.

But so far Marshall has 7 wins in 4 tries in the NCAAs at WSU, with an average seed of 5.5. The team that won the NIT in 2011 didn't earn their way into the NCAA tourney, but they would have competed there quite well...they obliterated people in the NIT.

Personally, I think WSU needs to MAKE the tournament 3-4 out of every 5 years. Win the conference 2-3 times every 5 years. Keep graduating players, and getting guys that like to play hard. Throw in advancing to the 2nd weekend once every 3-5 years and I would be nothing but happy.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby jwa123 » April 3rd, 2015, 2:16 pm

rlh04d wrote:
UNIFanSince1983 wrote:But that is the thing money wouldn't be the reason Marshall would leave WSU for one of those jobs. Obviously, he would get a bit of money for it, but that is not the reason coaches take those jobs.

The important thing is Marshall and Jacobsen appear to be staying put for now. That alone is a big win for each school and the conference as a whole.

One very interesting thing I learned about this: I'm fairly certain Marshall would be at Alabama right now if it was up to him. I think this decision is on his family. I have a feeling both of his kids campaigned hard to stay in Wichita. So in that sense, I'm not sure it would be about the prestige of those jobs, either. Marshall obviously values the opinions of his family very highly.

But they'll be out of school before too much longer, and I don't see them being around to talk Marshall out of taking one of those jobs if they come open in the next few years.

Still, there are maybe four jobs we could ever worry about losing Marshall to now. Kentucky, Florida, UNC, Duke. Who would ever expect that to be the limitations of what a coach would leave a Valley team for?


Speaks very positively to Gregg Marshall's character when he does what's more important for his family than what is best for his career.
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Re: Gregg Marshall stays at Wichita

Postby rlh04d » April 3rd, 2015, 3:15 pm

uniftw wrote:I'm not going to argue Marshall's worth to WSU...but with a 3.3mpy tag on his head anything less than a title in the next 3-5 years is sure to ultimately be deemed a failure and overpaying...as well as anything less than a s16/elite eight every single season on the way....right?

I could see why someone would have that opinion.

In my opinion, the limitations on Wichita State's program are the same whether they're paying Marshall $1 million or $10 million. They'd be the same limitations whether we have Marshall as our coach or Coach K. WSU will always struggle to get big name noncon opponents without taking buy games, will always struggle to get elite recruits, will always struggle to get conference games televised, and so on. His salary doesn't change that -- maybe with recruits, just because they know he's less likely to leave, but that's about it.

I think you have to look at Marshall's value to the university as being about more than athletics. WSU's success under Marshall hasn't just been about an NIT title/four straight NCAA appearances/Final Four/Undefeated Season/Sweet 16. It's also been about a vastly higher profile for the university, significantly higher enrollment, the Innovation Campus, the new dorm, significantly increased donations, and so on and so on. Which doesn't even get into the benefits to Wichita as a city, economic and otherwise. And none of that even touches on the athletic department.

I personally think that if Marshall ends up retiring at Wichita State, WSU is going to be used as a model throughout the nation of how a "smaller" university can use athletics to dramatically improve everything about it. Marshall is the publicity driver, but Dr. Bardo is probably just as important. Lots of universities increase their athletic profile through athletic publicity -- Dr. Bardo seems to have a strategic, aggressive desire to transform the university, enabled by athletic publicity.

And while I'm obviously not an independent observer, I'm not a Wichita State alumni, either. Ultimately what Wichita State does as a university, independent of the athletic department, doesn't matter that much to me. But I'm very impressed with the moves WSU has made as a university in the last several years. The groundwork has been laid to transform WSU into something very different.

But ... I think if you look at Marshall's salary as a driver for the improvements towards the university as a whole, and as a way to continuously drive attention to the university and build the loyalty that's needed to drive donations to fund university improvements, I really don't think the athletics themselves are that important. WSU will just want Marshall to keep doing what he's been doing: win at a level that continuously keeps WSU in the news. A national championship would absolutely do that, but so would regular Sweet 16 runs. No question, though, WSU wants a national championship, and that's a possibility now.

I'm not sure I agree with the number just because it seems so astronomical, but WSU's study estimated the university received $571 million in advertising just from the Final Four run alone. That's Marshall's new salary for the next 173 years. If that number is even ten times what WSU actually made, $57.1 million is still probably more than Marshall will make from WSU in his career, even with this new contract, and doesn't account for the publicity of these last two years, and any future publicity.

And hell, WSU's last several years are even more impressive given the state of Kansas politics. Donations are going to be more and more important to the university itself given declining state funds.

I don't live in Wichita anymore and haven't in some time ... but when I go back, the city is different than I remember it. There's more of a swagger around town, and there's more pride in the city itself. You can legitimately make the argument that Marshall is transforming Wichita.

IMO, basketball success is the third most important part of Marshall's job.
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