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jackwagon wrote:Looking at point production, postseason accolades, and the fact that they were the best players on the 3rd place team last season led me to that conclusion. I think you could make a decent argument for a couple others.

That's a fair assessment. I haven't looked at those things and will take your word for it. My initial impression is that none of those guys are in the top three for their position, so it lacks punch. Collectively, they are probably one of the top two or three groups. No returning inside presence, however, greatly lowers my expectations and I will give the nod to Ben Nacobson over Greg Lansibg when it comes to a similar roster.

Fair enough, but that's not the original point I was making. I'm not picking them to be ahead of UNI. I too think Jake is a superior coach, but the fact that Lansing is a solid coach and they have a comparable roster leads to believe they are much closer to UNI who is a 3-4 place team, instead of Drake who is a play in team.

jackwagon wrote:Fair enough, but that's not the original point I was making. I'm not picking them to be ahead of UNI. I too think Jake is a superior coach, but the fact that Lansing is a solid coach and they have a comparable roster leads to believe they are much closer to UNI who is a 3-4 place team, instead of Drake who is a play in team.

The problem with this is that it ignores the fact that ISUb does have an enormous glaring hole in their roster, which can be exploited even by crappy teams on occasion. While a team like Drake might not be as strong at the guard positions, they at least have someone to man the post.

I think this one is a close call. I think Drake has more upside and less of a glaring weakness that can be abused by anyone. I think Lansing is a better coach at this point. It would not surprise me in the least for ISUb to finish a game or 2 ahead or behind Drake, or in a tie. And certainly I can understand an ISUb fan being more optimistic about their team than I am. That's one of the things I really like about these threads. You get the fan perspective and then a lot of more neutral perspective.

Cdizzle wrote:

jackwagon wrote:Fair enough, but that's not the original point I was making. I'm not picking them to be ahead of UNI. I too think Jake is a superior coach, but the fact that Lansing is a solid coach and they have a comparable roster leads to believe they are much closer to UNI who is a 3-4 place team, instead of Drake who is a play in team.

The problem with this is that it ignores the fact that ISUb does have an enormous glaring hole in their roster, which can be exploited even by crappy teams on occasion. While a team like Drake might not be as strong at the guard positions, they at least have someone to man the post.

I think this one is a close call. I think Drake has more upside and less of a glaring weakness that can be abused by anyone. I think Lansing is a better coach at this point. It would not surprise me in the least for ISUb to finish a game or 2 ahead or behind Drake, or in a tie. And certainly I can understand an ISUb fan being more optimistic about their team than I am. That's one of the things I really like about these threads. You get the fan perspective and then a lot of more neutral perspective.

And Drake isn't going to be awful at the guard positions. Sophomore Reed Timmer who is probably our best returning player will be back at the two spot and Penn State transfer Graham Woodward is an upgrade at the point in place of Madison. Combine them with Jensen and our new European big Dominik Olejniczak down low and Drake looks to have a decent front and back court.

While it may not be saying much, Drake will be better and deeper at every position this year.They should also get much better as the season progresses due to the fact that he team is very young. The whole team will return next year too.

jackwagon wrote:Fair enough, but that's not the original point I was making. I'm not picking them to be ahead of UNI. I too think Jake is a superior coach, but the fact that Lansing is a solid coach and they have a comparable roster leads to believe they are much closer to UNI who is a 3-4 place team, instead of Drake who is a play in team.

So, you think UNI is a 3rd or 4th place team...and I don't disagree. I think Drake is a 6th or 7th place team. ISUb is probably a 5th place team. For me, ISU is not a lot closer to UNI than they are to Drake. Loyola is a bit of a wild card here. Will they revert to where they were two years ago, or continue to rise, and if so, how far?

I have a really hard time distinguishing between 2nd and 6th. UE, LUC, and Drake are all better on paper than last year. UNI is worse. The two ISUs look about the same (better on the perimeter but worse on the interior).

I have a really hard time distinguishing between 2nd and 6th.

Thats because you have your black and gold glasses on. perhaps you have a bigger problem between 1st-5th

sixth ace wrote:

I have a really hard time distinguishing between 2nd and 6th.

Thats because you have your black and gold glasses on. perhaps you have a bigger problem between 1st-5th

Eh. There is a very large gap between WSU and the rest of the Valley from a pre-season rankings perspective. There are lots of reasons to believe any one of UE, ISUb, ISUr LUC, and UNI could finish second. There are very few reasons to believe WSU will finish outside of first. Does that mean WSU will win? Absolutely not. It's just not a smart bet to take any other team over WSU.

Remove UE from the equation. Who is your pick for first?

sixth ace wrote:

I have a really hard time distinguishing between 2nd and 6th.

Thats because you have your black and gold glasses on. perhaps you have a bigger problem between 1st-5th

I pray that this was a poor attempt at humor.

I went with Indiana State. Don't know why. To me, after the Top 4 it's all a jumble.