Wichita BU game thread

[Singeril]

Does Caterpilar have any influence at Bradley (or in Peoria)?

[Wufan]

Tribe,

First of all Charles Koch lives in Wichita and is a donor to WSU academics and athletics as is Koch industries. Bill Koch has almost nothing to do with WSU other than his affiliation to Koch industries. Please do not use "Koch brothers" here. It makes you appear ignorant.

If Charles Koch wanted to buy a football program or whatever else, you are correct in that WSU would have it. The fact that he doesn't buy one is exactly why he is not like T Boone or Knight. He is only casually interested in WSU success and I believe that in most years WSU gets less than half of his total educational contributions. He literally gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to dozens of schools.

I have no idea hat you are talking about with Chris Jans, but I did hear from a very reliable source that Donte Thomas was going to bolt, but was paid $20K to stick around.

[Singeril]

And has somebody else has said, WSU has multiple high powered donors. There is a lot of "old" and "new" money in town due to the various industries--including multiple aircraft companies and the Coleman Company. There is a ton of investment coming into the campus via multiple avenues due to the new "Innovation Campus" including a major investment by Airbus.

[James__SIU]

I don't think it really matters who is giving money to who. What is clear is that WSU has significantly more money coming in than any valley team. That isn't their fault or anyone else in the Valleys fault for not keeping up. More money will just mean they get to pay Marshall high end power 6 conference money...something like 2mil a year right? He also gets 500k a year to retain assistants. Compare that to say SIU where they are paying Hinson 300k a year. Which I like Hinson. He is a great coach but if we have any measure of success with him here (Like finishing 2nd to WSU a couple times) he will get courted away by some university that can actually pay him. With Illinois's budget crisis and SIU just in general not having any money or big donors it is just impossible to keep up. All of this means WSU will have the upper hand in recruiting until the stays quo changes. They will have the coach security and facilities to lure most of the recruits they want their way.

So when Stickboy posted and was upset about WSU drop in RPI because Bradley is down this year I was a little annoyed. It's like a senior beating a freshman one on one and being upset that no one gave him a lot of credit for it. And it will remain that way until WSU has money on par with the teams they are playing against. Just my two cents. I'm trying to be a realist when it comes to being a fan of SIU. If WSU has more than 2 losses in Valley play any year I will be surprised. I hope I am wrong though.

[Singeril]

James--all good points. The only reason the multiple donors were brought up is because some poster decided to take a miacalculated shot at the "Koch brothers". Clarification was certainly in order.

[shockem]

One thing that seems to be forgotten is that WSU hasn't always paid its coaches millions of dollars. Mark Turgeon came to WSU at a salary of $250k. It's the winning that brought in the boosters to get the salaries competitive. When Turgeon left he was making $750k, good money for the Valley, but still not enough to keep him from bolting for a big conference. By that point, WSU had a winning track record and boosters lined up to attract 3G, who took quite a raise from Winthrop to make $750k his first year at WSU. Again, more winning continued to bring in more boosters and more salary.

I'm not sure what the ceiling is for other programs in the Valley, but it starts with findiing the right coach and establishing a consistent winning program, the money will follow.

[James__SIU]

Good point, Shockem. SIU had the right coach when it had Weber and Painter. That brought in the fans and donors at a level I could see us meeting again but not surpassing. SIU didn't have a major budget problem back then either. What did SIU do with that influx of money? It hired Chris Lowery at I think 750k a year. Which was definitely high end Valley money. It may have been the best at the time. A couple bad character recruits later and all that progress was gone. After he was fired he sued the university for millions...SIU transitioned coaches poorly (or Lowery was unlucky, which ever you choose) and WSU transitioned exceptionally.

[BirdsEyeView]

Wichita is very lucky to have the donor base AFTER hitting a home run in the hire of GM. The opposite effect can set a program back 10+ years....
There are plenty of instances of a bad coaching hire impacting a program negatively. Look at Bradley trying to overcome Geno Ford. Drake is still in the midst of it after Geno Davis. Illinois State is still trying to make a tournament after Stallings left and they made the terrible hire of Tom Richardson....etc etc.

-A high end coach provides you with funding to grow the basketball program (given you have the donors available and willing)
-A high end coach helps sustain success through recruiting
-A high end coach helps increase attendance and community involvement in the team
-A high end coach can even help with enrollment in the University if they get max exposure nationally (NCAA Tournament, high rankings, etc.)

These points are multiplied big time when playing in a mid-major conference like the MVC, because you typically have a huge leg up on nearly everybody else...with the caveat that you can KEEP SAID HEAD COACH FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD.

[LanceShock]

I thought Lowery had some initial success as head coach. I thought that was when SIU locked themselves into the contract with him that they would later regret.

Valley schools have a delicate balancing act to keep a head coach. Part of the reason Marshall is still at WSU is that WSU rewarded some of the initial success he had. I remember posters from other schools at the time being a little critical of WSU at the time and if Marshall's performance followed the Lusk trajectory, we would have been in trouble. Fortunately, Marshall was just getting started and WSU being willing to invest in him early helped keep him.

Another thing to keep in mind, sometimes, even if the coach leaves, rewarding the coach can pay off for the school. If Turgeon had not gotten a raise after the Sweet Sixteen, I'm not sure Marshall would have returned their calls. Even though Marshall didn't initially get that from WSU, it showed what WSU was willing to pay a winner.

I'm glad I don't have to make the decision on when a coach has had enough success to reward him. It is easy to make a mistake either way and either find yourself looking for another new coach or stuck paying one that isn't getting it done.

[RoyalShock]

There is a big difference between providing seed money for academic and athletic endeavors at the university and your assertion with which some have disagreed "the Koch Brothers power over everything WSU."

No one has suggested that there is no influence. But go ahead and run with whatever story you've heard. It's not like the rest of us live here everyday.

If Joe Blow fan writes a letter to the University President is it treated the same as if a Koch Brother wrote a letter?

If the Koch Brothers really push for football...Wichita State will have football. The MBB team is looking at a trip to China this summer. I can guarantee you that isn't something Gregg Marshall would prefer to do. But if it's something partially arranged and financed by Koch Industries then that trip will happen.

Does Phil Knight have influence at Oregon? Does T Boone Pickens have influence at OK State?

And sometimes "living there" makes people naive and not very objective when it comes to things they enjoy. Just a thought.

I think my biggest issue is the bolded part above. You may have a source saying this, and perhaps it's true. But I seriously doubt Charles Koch would push something like that on the basketball team if Marshall didn't think it was good for the program. There's too much mutual respect.