Valley Fantasy Draft

[Wufan]

Could you imagine a team's group of guards having to defend against Washpun, Baker and Morgan at the same time?

Yes. It would be less difficult than having to guard FVV, Baker, and Brown/McDuffie at the same time.

But Baker is out of the equation given the "fantasy" nature of this thread. He can't be on UNI and WSU.

Morgan is the best defender at the 3 in the MVC now that Cotton is gone. Is FVV really that much superior on D to Washpun to make up the difference of having Baker and Morgan lock down the 2/3 spots? Did anyone see what Wes just did to Beane/Ballentine the last 2 games? He finally seems healthy and is back to the guy we saw in the non-con, especially on D

I don't believe Washpun is better than FVV offensively or defensively. He is more athletic and has some will sets that make him more difficult in certain match-ups. As for Morgan, he's good offensively and very good defensively. It is quite debatable as to if he is better than Brown/McDuffie at the wing. You mentioned what a great job Washpun did on Beane and Balentine, but WSU had Brown/McDuffie on those guys, and they shut em down (except Beane in Wichita).

[Redhawk]

I admire FVV and realize he is of the best players ever in MVC history but there are instances where coaches
would pick Baker over him for certain teams.

Just look at the 2015 Pan Am team. Baker made it...FVV got cut.

[BirdsEyeView]

I admire FVV and realize he is of the best pg's ever in MVC history but there are instances where coaches
would pick Baker over him for certain teams.

Just look at the 2015 Pan Am team. Baker made it...FVV got cut.

Sorry I don't mean to pick on you, but just arguing differing points of view here....
That Pan Am team lost in the semis to Canada giving up 111 points in the loss. How would they have done with FVV and his no-lose attitude. The hard part here is FVV was injured in non-conference and they lost multiple games without him. He comes back and now they are unstoppable. There is a direct correlation to that and if you want a Fantasy team, you want to win all your games with that fantasy team, not just score a bunch of points with Ron Baker (your reasoning for the ISUr choice for Baker over FVV due to us becoming harder to guard).

The final of that Pan Am game was 111-108 in the semis. Do you think you'd prefer losing with that high score or winning the game no matter the final score?

[Rollbird5]

I admire FVV and realize he is of the best players ever in MVC history but there are instances where coaches
would pick Baker over him for certain teams.

Just look at the 2015 Pan Am team. Baker made it...FVV got cut.

I agree with most of what you have said on here, but I dont think the Pan-Am team is a good example. They had very shaky point guard play the whole time and didn't win a gold medal, Fred might've been the difference for that team

[Redhawk]

I would rather win the game of course and I agree with what you are saying regarding Fred being more
valuable to the Shockers...that has been proven to be true. Would he add more value to the Redbirds than
Baker is the debate.

Fact is though that Mark Few saw something in Ron Baker that he preferred to have him on the team
over Fred. Does that make Ron the better player...no. It's just a coach trying to put together his own
rotation with the best collection of players.

If I were starting a team from scratch it would be a no doubt to pick Fred. With the option of only adding one player I think ISUr is pretty solid at 4 staring spots and weak at one. Ron Baker would be a serious upgrade at the 2 guard and bring a lot of the same intangibles that Fred has.

The basis for my argument is that the gap between Baker/Wills is much larger than the gap between
Van Vleet/Lee which I think collectively would make ISUr better. That is similar to panthersigep's choice
of Baker to keep Washpun in the lineup.

[BirdsEyeView]

I think you are over-valuing PLee. Again, a poor basketball IQ for a team is typically a reflection of two people

1. Head Coach
2. Point Guard

Paris Lee is the point guard and there are countless examples of his poor decisions down the stretch causing us to lose games (@ Missouri St. for example). Not to mention his 1v1 defending has gotten worse this year and exposed without Reggie Lynch to protect the lane. He continues to give up dribble penetration.

Both Baker and FVV are great players and both would improve any team in the valley, but if you had to choose one player to be your foundation for the Redbirds (or really any team in this league), it's Fred VanVleet all day every day. If you like Paris so much, just slide him to SG or if Roland Griffin were healthy, guess who goes to the bench again (Tony Wills).

[Redhawk]

No one on the Redbirds frustrates me more than PLee! I HAVE to over value him though because he is the only real PG on the team. Definitely do not want him to play 2 guard either...that might be even worse!

That is the problem with ISUr. Whoever they play in the Valley has them over matched in guard play. Even against Loyola the other night the Birds were getting outscored 24-8 at halftime from the guard position.
Pretty much any starting guard in the valley would be an upgrade for ISUr!

To your point it's more of a Coaching error in recruiting. They have no decent options at 2 guard and only one PG of Valley caliber. Muller also really can't force PLee to play the game they way he wants because there is no threat of being replaced in the line-up!

[Cdizzle]

But Baker is out of the equation given the "fantasy" nature of this thread. He can't be on UNI and WSU.

Your question was about imagining how hard those 3 would be to stop. I'm saying I have a comparison point of a real team that is already more difficult to stop, so yes, I can imagine it.

Morgan is the best defender at the 3 in the MVC now that Cotton is gone.

If we are making the common assumption that WSU players are not in the running, then I agree. If not, then he is the 3rd best.

Is FVV really that much superior on D to Washpun

Yes.

to make up the difference of having Baker and Morgan lock down the 2/3 spots?

Again, I'd take the defensive combo of Baker/Brown or Baker/McDuffie over Baker/Morgan all day every day.

Did anyone see what Wes just did to Beane/Ballentine the last 2 games?

Have you seen the career numbers of those guys against WSU? Because they are even worse this year as seniors against Brown/McDuffie than they have been against Cotton.

[Cdizzle]

Fact is though that Mark Few saw something in Ron Baker that he preferred to have him on the team over Fred.

1. It wasn't about taking Ron over Fred. They were at different positions. It was about taking Ron over the other 2 guards at the camp, and taking a bunch of terrible PGs over Fred at the PG.
2. If Few made the decision about PG, he was dead wrong, and it cost him a gold medal.
3. Melo Trimble was selected over FVV at the camp because of certain influences of certain other "assistant coaches" at the camp.

Aside from feeling bad for Baker, that team got what they deserved. It was blatantly obvious to anyone who has ever watched basketball before that the reason they weren't in contention for a gold medal was PG play.

[Redhawk]

Fact is though that Mark Few saw something in Ron Baker that he preferred to have him on the team over Fred.

1. It wasn't about taking Ron over Fred. They were at different positions. It was about taking Ron over the other 2 guards at the camp.

My point isn't about taking Ron over Fred either. It's taking Baker over Wills & McCloud!