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Again. If Clayton is MVC Newcomer of the Year quality and second team All League and All-District than he is one heck of a player who averaged 4 ppg as a freshman at WKU.

I never remember hearing about how bad a player DAP was until he no longer had any eligibility left at ISU

tribecalledquest wrote:Again. If Clayton is MVC Newcomer of the Year quality and second team All League and All-District than he is one heck of a player who averaged 4 ppg as a freshman at WKU.

I never remember hearing about how bad a player DAP was until he no longer had any eligibility left at ISU

Nobody is pushing Clayton as a newcomer of the year but there is hope that his all around skills mesh well with the 4 returning starters.

FYI...Fred Van Vleet only averaged 4 points a game as a Freshman..and he turned out pretty good

I'll just say this - I would take Harrison Barnes over James Harden all day every day.

Barnes is inferior in terms of numbers, accolades, etc than Harden, but I think he provides more value to a team winning than Harden does.

These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close.

Ranking our players last year in terms of value to the team:

1. Paris Lee
2. MiKyle McIntosh
3. Deontae Hawkins
4. DAP

So, yes it hurts we lost him, but not like we are losing FVV and need to replace him with a stud that can reach that level.

BirdsEyeView wrote:
These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close..

He helped get us 20 minutes or so away from the NCAA tourney I'd say that's close

Rollbird5 wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:
These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close..

He helped get us 20 minutes or so away from the NCAA tourney I'd say that's close

He was 3-15 from the field against UNI in the finals that year.

It's pretty safe to say Daishon Knight and Reggie Lynch + Justin McCloud's shooting were the bigger reasons for that conference tourney run and/or the performance in that specific game.

Besides, you can't put all your eggs in the "Let's win 3 games in Arch Madness to make the NCAAs" basket. We aren't Evansville here, our goal should be an at large lock going into that tournament. So, your argument is moot.

I liked DAP, but he is definitely replaceable with a non-superstar incoming player. That's my argument.

BirdsEyeView wrote:I'll just say this - I would take Harrison Barnes over James Harden all day every day.

Barnes is inferior in terms of numbers, accolades, etc than Harden, but I think he provides more value to a team winning than Harden does.

These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close.

Ranking our players last year in terms of value to the team:

1. Paris Lee
2. MiKyle McIntosh
3. Deontae Hawkins
4. DAP

So, yes it hurts we lost him, but not like we are losing FVV and need to replace him with a stud that can reach that level.

Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

tribecalledquest wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:I'll just say this - I would take Harrison Barnes over James Harden all day every day.

Barnes is inferior in terms of numbers, accolades, etc than Harden, but I think he provides more value to a team winning than Harden does.

These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close.

Ranking our players last year in terms of value to the team:

1. Paris Lee
2. MiKyle McIntosh
3. Deontae Hawkins
4. DAP

So, yes it hurts we lost him, but not like we are losing FVV and need to replace him with a stud that can reach that level.

Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

You could count on Dap to score at least 10 points every game, that consistency isn't always easy to find. Dap was really important to the team the last two years. I'm hoping McIntosh can be that guy this year

tribecalledquest wrote:
Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

DAP was a good player and teammate but he was simply a scorer. Is it wrong for ISUr fans to hope for a more multi dimensional player like Ron Baker or Jeremy Morgan? The type of player that can score...and be a play maker...and play defense. I would prefer a guy that could win the game at crunch time in a variety of ways than the one most likely to make the SC Top 10 list with a highlight reel dunk.

Rollbird5 wrote:

tribecalledquest wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:I'll just say this - I would take Harrison Barnes over James Harden all day every day.

Barnes is inferior in terms of numbers, accolades, etc than Harden, but I think he provides more value to a team winning than Harden does.

These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close.

Ranking our players last year in terms of value to the team:

1. Paris Lee
2. MiKyle McIntosh
3. Deontae Hawkins
4. DAP

So, yes it hurts we lost him, but not like we are losing FVV and need to replace him with a stud that can reach that level.

Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

You could count on Dap to score at least 10 points every game, that consistency isn't always easy to find. Dap was really important to the team the last two years. I'm hoping McIntosh can be that guy this year

First of all Tribe, I never said he is a bad player....I said he is replaceable, with someone that doesn't even have to be a superstar type of recruit.

Second, both Tribe and Rollbird are infatuated with scoring. If DAP scores over 10 points a game, but gives up over 10 points a game what is his +/- between him and the guy he is guarding, because he was a poor defender?

Also is 86 turnovers to 60 assists good for a playmaker? That was DAP's Assist to Turnover ratio...last year, it's very much negative. Is that replaceable or is that 10 points per game more valuable? Honestly guys...

As for Harrison Barnes vs James Harden, yes he plays with Steph Curry, but I would still take him over the "me first" James Harden.

Harden scored 36 points in the final playoff loss vs Golden St. and guess what his +/- was while on the floor....-27 points!!! Are you kidding me? Does that make up for scoring 36 points? Hell no! But, simple-minded thinking would look at that stat line and go "Oh he was the only one doing anything that night." No, his defense sucks and he is a ball hog.

Redhawk wrote:

tribecalledquest wrote:
Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

DAP was a good player and teammate but he was simply a scorer. Is it wrong for ISUr fans to hope for a more multi dimensional player like Ron Baker or Jeremy Morgan? The type of player that can score...and be a play maker...and play defense. I would prefer a guy that could win the game at crunch time in a variety of ways than the one most likely to make the SC Top 10 list with a highlight reel dunk.