Report: Wichita State has contacted Mountain West

[WSUShox88]

Burn.

[BEARZ77]

Yadda Yadda. Just as Casey Garrison doesn't speak for all Bear fans, I hardly think you know the intentions for all Shockers. But hey, think what you want.

[All-MVC Fan]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

As my name implies, I root for every MVC team, and long to see the conference become stronger. In the 45+ years I've followed the MVC, I've seen it all. Teams come, teams go, but the league keeps going on.

What concerns me about Wichita leaving is that normally (not in the case of Creighton leaving), when a good team leaves, the league tanks for a few years until either A) another school at a high enough level is brought in to make up for loss, or B) a current member gets lucky on a coaching hire and spurs some success. This is not good in today's climate. I don't think the Valley can weather going backwards by 10 or 15 RPI spots and then bounce back to #6. Not today.

Wichita leaving would be bad, very bad, for the Valley. Yes, the conference would survive and go on, but at a diminished level of competition and prestige. Having WSU in the fold makes the climb to greater heights easier for the other schools, whether they choose to believe that or not. Hence, WSU leaving is a very bad thing.

I would rather see the MVC become proactive (they haven't been yet in the past 45 years, but there's always hope, right?) and seriously stalk some real quality programs (no offense to Loyola, that was a play for the Chicago market) to make the MVC more attractive to WSU, the pollsters, the NCAA tournament committee, etc. Other "mid-major" leagues got serious about this 10 years ago, and look at them now - the A-10, the MWC, etc.

A change in league leadership might be needed, but if alumni of the various schools were to pressure their own administrations and also pony up money to the athletic programs, my dream could become a reality. But, looking at the grand expanse of history, it is just that - a dream.

Long story short (too late, I know...), WSU leaving would be bad for the Valley, very bad. Say it ain't so!!!

[SubGod22]

The problem is that the MVC has let other potential schools go to other conferences over the years because they were content and have never been proactive in anything.

What are the best options right now that could be considered realistic? The XDSU combo? Solid athletic departments and would both probably be upper Valley from the start. Nobody wants to go to the Dakotas though.

Valpo? Another small private but has had some success. Would probably be mid to upper MVC.

That's about it as far as upper tier teams. UMKC? That would be much like the Loyola addition. Market. SIU-E? Just another market. Both would compete for the bottom of the conference.

ORU? Nobody really wants them but they'd probably be mid tier most of the time.

Milwaukee? I believe they're practically bankrupt. I kid. Kinda. But they'd still be lower to mid.

Double down on Chicago with UIC? Yawn. Another lower tier program.

Little Rock? They had a good year and no football but haven't proven anything.

Belmont? They have little to no desire to be in the MVC. Plus it's another tiny private that may very well fall off when their aging coach retires. But it's in a good market

Denver? They're not interested.

Arlington? Basketball focused school that's been on an upward swing. But the MVC will not move into Texas.

New Mexico State? Would be a mid to top tier program but it's farther than Arlington.

SEMO? I certainly hope not.

SLU and Dayton will never happen.

So the best options from a pure basketball POV is the XDSU combo. And they would come. Not sure they'll get the votes though. But I'd also be shocked to see the MVC expand to 12 even though they probably should have a long time ago.

[MoValley John]

Yadda Yadda. Just as Casey Garrison doesn't speak for all Bear fans, I hardly think you know the intentions for all Shockers. But hey, think what you want.

You're right, nobody can speak for everybody, I should just keep my mouth shut. I don't know anything about how many or most of them feel, I don't post on their board regularly. I've never met a single Shocker fan in person, I've never done any of that and I'm not even welcome on shockernet- in fact, I'm banned over there! And how would I know how Creighton fans feel? I don't live in Omaha, I don't have tickets to Creighton basketball, I don't know, nor do I associate with any Creighton fans, I just have zero perspective of what the overall feelings were from either fan base. Yeah, that's it!

I'll give you this, though, the very first time I hear a Shocker fan float an unsubstantiated rumor about them having an offer, I will ruthlessly mock that person. And when and if that rumor turns out to be false, I will make the mocking Casey, and Bears fans took, seem like child's play! But as of now, no Shocker fan has done so, and looking back at the Creighton situation, their fans never floated rumours from "reliable sources with close ties" as Casey did, they simply pondered what the news stories meant, and what it would be like if they were offered.

The "taking heat" had been reserved for Missouri State simply because Missouri State fans are the only ones that floated these rumors

[isumvc1]

The problem is that the MVC has let other potential schools go to other conferences over the years because they were content and have never been proactive in anything.

What are the best options right now that could be considered realistic? The XDSU combo? Solid athletic departments and would both probably be upper Valley from the start. Nobody wants to go to the Dakotas though.

Valpo? Another small private but has had some success. Would probably be mid to upper MVC.

That's about it as far as upper tier teams. UMKC? That would be much like the Loyola addition. Market. SIU-E? Just another market. Both would compete for the bottom of the conference.

ORU? Nobody really wants them but they'd probably be mid tier most of the time.

Milwaukee? I believe they're practically bankrupt. I kid. Kinda. But they'd still be lower to mid.

Double down on Chicago with UIC? Yawn. Another lower tier program.

Little Rock? They had a good year and no football but haven't proven anything.

Belmont? They have little to no desire to be in the MVC. Plus it's another tiny private that may very well fall off when their aging coach retires. But it's in a good market

Denver? They're not interested.

Arlington? Basketball focused school that's been on an upward swing. But the MVC will not move into Texas.

New Mexico State? Would be a mid to top tier program but it's farther than Arlington.

SEMO? I certainly hope not.

SLU and Dayton will never happen.

So the best options from a pure basketball POV is the XDSU combo. And they would come. Not sure they'll get the votes though. But I'd also be shocked to see the MVC expand to 12 even though they probably should have a long time ago.

This is utterly false Sub, and here's why, there is no way, shape, or form the xdsu's will leave their league, and the reason is they host their league basketball tourney in what amounts to a "home" tourney for them in sioux falls. Attendance is very good, even for the women's games, and they will never ever give that up, it's basically a very easy road to the ncaa tourney for any dakota men's or women's bb team. So them to the MVC ain't happening, ever.

as an addendum though Sub, I will add this, all 3 dakota territory schools would be good additions to the MVC, they all have the sports we offer in the MVC, and "most" of their sports would be competitive in the MVC. But you're totally right with your point that nobody wants to come to the dakotas, including the schools already in their league. If IUPUI, IPFW, or Western Illinois for that matter, were ever offered membership in a different league they couldn't sign on the dotted line fast enough, but they have no options at this point, so they're basically stuck.

I could someday see the MVC with 12-14 members and split into 2 divisions, kind of like an SEC of I-AA schools. But the conference isn't proactive enough to do something like that, we'll sit around and see what happens, then be stuck picking up another lower level school.

[uniftw]

This is utterly false Sub, and here's why, there is no way, shape, or form the xdsu's will leave their league, and the reason is they host their league basketball tourney in what amounts to a "home" tourney for them in sioux falls. Attendance is very good, even for the women's games, and they will never ever give that up, it's basically a very easy road to the ncaa tourney for any dakota men's or women's bb team. So them to the MVC ain't happening, ever.

as an addendum though Sub, I will add this, all 3 dakota territory schools would be good additions to the MVC, they all have the sports we offer in the MVC, and "most" of their sports would be competitive in the MVC. But you're totally right with your point that nobody wants to come to the dakotas, including the schools already in their league. If IUPUI, IPFW, or Western Illinois for that matter, were ever offered membership in a different league they couldn't sign on the dotted line fast enough, but they have no options at this point, so they're basically stuck.

I could someday see the MVC with 12-14 members and split into 2 divisions, kind of like an SEC of I-AA schools. But the conference isn't proactive enough to do something like that, we'll sit around and see what happens, then be stuck picking up another lower level school.

It's not "utterly false". Yes, the xDSU's have a nice set up right now. It has to be that way becuause the Summit knows they are the only thing holding it together. The Summit is quite unstable right now, mostly because of baseball. They are at the bare minimum to keep the baseball autobid. Should that go away you'll see the remaining baseball schools scrambling for a new home. That league has a high turnover rate the way it is. The xDSU's are the only thing holding it together right now. Many xDSU fans are quite worried about the future of the conference and are pushing for them to find a new home or start raiding the MVC or Big Sky for old North Central Conference rivals to build the "The Summit Football Conference" and add to The Summit membership.

There has been contact made between the MVC and xDSU's - more than most know/want to admit. I don't know that anything is even close, but it's been discussed. It's also been happening partially to keep the MVFC stable and keep the MVC/MVFC teams from needing a new football home and potentially a new home all together. If The Summit grows by adding UND from the Big Sky (not a crazy thought by any stretch) they could petition the NCAA to start their own conference with an autobid. They'd have the numbers. The MVFC then is dropped to the minimum for an autobid, and that's only because YSU is an associate member. YSU is rumored to be looking back east for a potential home. The xDSU's instantly stabilize the MVFC and MVC.

They already put more money and effort into being good than at least half of the existing MVC programs and have been D1 for less than a decade. A large bump would still be needed in coaches pay, recruiting budget, etc... to get them "on par' but even below par they wouldn't be PIG teams with how bad DU, BU, MSU, Loyola, and Evansville can be/are.

USD is a non-starter unless the state of SD forces SDSU to attatch to them, and that's the rumor the last few years since they got in the Summit and moved D1. The state of SD wasn't real happy SDSU tied to NDSU to move D1 and left USD behind in D2 - which forced USD/UND to hook together but UND burned almost all of their NDSU/SDSU/USD bridges by backing out of the MVFC/Summit set up in the 11th hour to head to the Big Sky. That means USD has no dance partner right now. They may not let SDSU make a move that would put USD in a bad spot.

You're totally wrong that no body wants the Dakota's. You're completely correct that the cheap ass Illinois schools wouldn't vote for the Dakota's because they can't bus there. Though SIU may vote for them. You may be right that the snobbery of the privates would hold them out as well. Then again, the snobbery of the privates and the "must be a private school. must be a basketball school" attitude is how we ended up with f****** Loyola. That attitude has held the MVC back recently. Maybe it the private basketball schools weren't the bottom of the pile, complete dog s*** teams, of the conference most years I'd be willing to stay in line with that though process. I used to be, but I can't anymore. This year 3 of 4 PIG teams were private basketball schools. The only one that wasn't usually is fighting for the 6th spot and had it's best year in a half century.

Over the last 10 seasons here's the average finish, in order
WSU - 3.2
UNI - 3.4
ISUR - 4.6
ISUB - 6.0 - GETS TIEBREAK OVER MSU DUE TO LESS THURSDAY GAMES
MSU - 6.0
UE - 6.3
SIU 6.5
BU - 7.2
DU - 7.4
LUC - 8 (only 3 years)

That means the only football school to be in the bottom 4 the last decade is SIU, and they are only .2 behind UE. That's telling given that this started the final year of SIU's "dominance" and how bad SIU has been the last decade. Essentially SIU is one spot in one year away from making it that the 4 private, non football schools, are the bottom 4 over the last decade.

Maybe it's time we quit pandering to them.

[isumvc1]

This is utterly false Sub, and here's why, there is no way, shape, or form the xdsu's will leave their league, and the reason is they host their league basketball tourney in what amounts to a "home" tourney for them in sioux falls. Attendance is very good, even for the women's games, and they will never ever give that up, it's basically a very easy road to the ncaa tourney for any dakota men's or women's bb team. So them to the MVC ain't happening, ever.

as an addendum though Sub, I will add this, all 3 dakota territory schools would be good additions to the MVC, they all have the sports we offer in the MVC, and "most" of their sports would be competitive in the MVC. But you're totally right with your point that nobody wants to come to the dakotas, including the schools already in their league. If IUPUI, IPFW, or Western Illinois for that matter, were ever offered membership in a different league they couldn't sign on the dotted line fast enough, but they have no options at this point, so they're basically stuck.

I could someday see the MVC with 12-14 members and split into 2 divisions, kind of like an SEC of I-AA schools. But the conference isn't proactive enough to do something like that, we'll sit around and see what happens, then be stuck picking up another lower level school.

It's not "utterly false". Yes, the xDSU's have a nice set up right now. It has to be that way becuause the Summit knows they are the only thing holding it together. The Summit is quite unstable right now, mostly because of baseball. They are at the bare minimum to keep the baseball autobid. Should that go away you'll see the remaining baseball schools scrambling for a new home. That league has a high turnover rate the way it is. The xDSU's are the only thing holding it together right now. Many xDSU fans are quite worried about the future of the conference and are pushing for them to find a new home or start raiding the MVC or Big Sky for old North Central Conference rivals to build the "The Summit Football Conference" and add to The Summit membership.

There has been contact made between the MVC and xDSU's - more than most know/want to admit. I don't know that anything is even close, but it's been discussed. It's also been happening partially to keep the MVFC stable and keep the MVC/MVFC teams from needing a new football home and potentially a new home all together. If The Summit grows by adding UND from the Big Sky (not a crazy thought by any stretch) they could petition the NCAA to start their own conference with an autobid. They'd have the numbers. The MVFC then is dropped to the minimum for an autobid, and that's only because YSU is an associate member. YSU is rumored to be looking back east for a potential home. The xDSU's instantly stabilize the MVFC and MVC.

They already put more money and effort into being good than at least half of the existing MVC programs and have been D1 for less than a decade. A large bump would still be needed in coaches pay, recruiting budget, etc... to get them "on par' but even below par they wouldn't be PIG teams with how bad DU, BU, MSU, Loyola, and Evansville can be/are.

USD is a non-starter unless the state of SD forces SDSU to attatch to them, and that's the rumor the last few years since they got in the Summit and moved D1. The state of SD wasn't real happy SDSU tied to NDSU to move D1 and left USD behind in D2 - which forced USD/UND to hook together but UND burned almost all of their NDSU/SDSU/USD bridges by backing out of the MVFC/Summit set up in the 11th hour to head to the Big Sky. That means USD has no dance partner right now. They may not let SDSU make a move that would put USD in a bad spot.

You're totally wrong that no body wants the Dakota's. You're completely correct that the cheap ass Illinois schools wouldn't vote for the Dakota's because they can't bus there. Though SIU may vote for them. You may be right that the snobbery of the privates would hold them out as well. Then again, the snobbery of the privates and the "must be a private school. must be a basketball school" attitude is how we ended up with f****** Loyola. That attitude has held the MVC back recently. Maybe it the private basketball schools weren't the bottom of the pile, complete dog s*** teams, of the conference most years I'd be willing to stay in line with that though process. I used to be, but I can't anymore. This year 3 of 4 PIG teams were private basketball schools. The only one that wasn't usually is fighting for the 6th spot and had it's best year in a half century.

Over the last 10 seasons here's the average finish, in order
WSU - 3.2
UNI - 3.4
ISUR - 4.6
ISUB - 6.0 - GETS TIEBREAK OVER MSU DUE TO LESS THURSDAY GAMES
MSU - 6.0
UE - 6.3
SIU 6.5
BU - 7.2
DU - 7.4
LUC - 8 (only 3 years)

That means the only football school to be in the bottom 4 the last decade is SIU, and they are only .2 behind UE. That's telling given that this started the final year of SIU's "dominance" and how bad SIU has been the last decade. Essentially SIU is one spot in one year away from making it that the 4 private, non football schools, are the bottom 4 over the last decade.

Maybe it's time we quit pandering to them.

I didn't say nobody wants the dakotas, I said "nobody wants to come to the Dakotas", completely different interpretation on your part, if you think the other schools in their league enjoy having to venture to the dakotas in the winter months you're nuts. I know IUPUI and IPFW dread their trips there for all their sports, it's a very difficult trip and both schools rarely have success in any sport they have to compete in out there. Again, if they were offered membership in another league closer to Indiana, say the Horizon, they couldn't sign on fast enough.

You can think what you want about the dakotas leaving their league for the MVC, and I'm sure there have been discussions about them joining our conference as full members, (which I wouldn't argue against), I'm just saying the odds of it happening are slim to none, they have too good of a setup for the league tourney in sioux falls, and that's going to keep them in their league for quite a while.

I'll stick to my point that if the dakota schools are ever all added to the MVC, (USD included) it will result in a two division MVC, which I think most schools, including the private schools, would be ok with.

[glm38]

Yadda Yadda. Just as Casey Garrison doesn't speak for all Bear fans, I hardly think you know the intentions for all Shockers. But hey, think what you want.

You're right, nobody can speak for everybody, I should just keep my mouth shut. I don't know anything about how many or most of them feel, I don't post on their board regularly. I've never met a single Shocker fan in person, I've never done any of that and I'm not even welcome on shockernet- in fact, I'm banned over there! And how would I know how Creighton fans feel? I don't live in Omaha, I don't have tickets to Creighton basketball, I don't know, nor do I associate with any Creighton fans, I just have zero perspective of what the overall feelings were from either fan base. Yeah, that's it!

I'll give you this, though, the very first time I hear a Shocker fan float an unsubstantiated rumor about them having an offer, I will ruthlessly mock that person. And when and if that rumor turns out to be false, I will make the mocking Casey, and Bears fans took, seem like child's play! But as of now, no Shocker fan has done so, and looking back at the Creighton situation, their fans never floated rumours from "reliable sources with close ties" as Casey did, they simply pondered what the news stories meant, and what it would be like if they were offered.

The "taking heat" had been reserved for Missouri State simply because Missouri State fans are the only ones that floated these rumors

What?? You are banned on Shockernet?? Why doesn't that surprise me......

[tribecalledquest]

I am personally bullish on the two South Dakota teams.

To act like those are huge outposts compared to Cedar Falls, Springfield or Carbondale is a stretch.

The $$$ is there. The facilities are there. I don't want to expand just to expand but those are the first two teams I would look at.