MVC non conference '16-'17 schedules being released

[uniftw]

Yes, the qualified out of the Midwestern Conference....which had 6 teams....and is no the Horizon.

The MCC never had 6 teams. 8 for awhile near the end but never 6. [/quote]
UE's last year - 6 http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/con ... /1994.html
1991-1992 - 6 http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/con ... /1992.html
[/quote]

You are correct, it wasn't the Horizon, it was much better. Near the end when UE was going to the post season the conference was UE, Xavier, Butler, Loyola, Detroit, Saint Louis, and Dayton. LaSalle, Marquette, and Duquense were each around a few years also.

Names like Butler, St Louis and Dayton sound real nice now but at that time? Dayton was 500 or worse the last 80s and early 90s. Hell, they were 4-26 in 1992-93 and didn't win more than 7 games until 1997.
SLU won 5 games in 91-92, 12 games in 92-93
Buter won 18 and 21 games in 90 and 91 but that was sandwhich on both sides by years of sub .500
Playing the name game is a tricky way to retroactively make things sound different.

Do you see Evasnville, investing to a deep level moving forward? They just had their most successful 4 year run since the late 80s-early 90s. They are 84-55 the last four years and rather than having reason to believe that success is going to continue we are being told that it's going to get rough for a few years and the coach may be on a hot seat.

The coach has been on the hot seat for a few years now with many of the fans for various reasons. Yes, the next two years will be pretty lean on wins. They will be telling on where the program actually is.

Marty is entering his 10th year...if you need to get to year 11 of a coach to see where the program is...well...it's not where you want it and that's not a good sign.

Having two almost locked in games again the two P5 schools in your state certainly didn't hurt. In 2003-2004, UNI played Chicago State (Mid-Con), Butler (Horizon), Louisiana Tech (WAC), Furman (Southern), A non-D1, and Siena (MAAC). Not exactly a murder's row.

and that was coming off a year UNI finished in the PIG and was at the end of a run where it was bad at UNI. The 11 years that UNI had been in the MVC before 03/04 UNI had finished with single digit wins 3 times and hadn't had 20 or more wins since 89-90. UNI probably had one of the 4 smallest budgets in the MVC at that point. At some point an athletic department needs to decide what they want to be and how to get there. UE needs to decide if what they've seen from Marty for 9 years now is who they want to be. If it's not then UE needs to figure out how to get to that level.

UNI decided where they wanted to be at that point - McDermott's 3rd year - and look what happened to the scheduling. It ramped up a little under Mac and then under Jake it's...well...great. 9 years into a coach isn't a "we still are feeling the program out" situation. Lusk is in his 6th season. I feel the same about that schedule.

I blame the MVC as much as the teams. There's no conference incentive to actually schedule anyone. Just schedule as many bad teams to get as many wins as possible to brag about win total when talking about if you should keep your job 6-10 years in.

[Dean Wormer]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Evansville fans that weren't disappointed with how last year ended. No one is content, but that is the reality as life of a fan of a mid-major school. Everyone in this conference outside of maybe WSU is a Chris Lowery, Steve Merfeld, Mark Phelps, or Geno Ford hire away from derailing their program for many years.

The illusions of grandeur that a couple of the UNI fans exhibit are getting old. The last line in this paragraph is dead on. After seeing how far SIU fell after the great run in the 2000's, what in the world do UNI fans think will keep them from a similar fate in a Post-Jacobson time? SIU has a long history of success, going back to at least the Walt Frazier days, had a great run and still saw it all crumble with one bad hire. I would also agree that WSU is probably the only one who is potentially safe with a bad hire, but look how hard it was for them to come back after Randy Smithson.

IMO, UNI may be one of the worst schools in the conference to have as a leader. The upside isn't very up. Last year, they had a top-20 team, and still had mediocre attendance. You take UNI's last 5-7 years and give it to Bradley or Evansville and you would see standing room only for every game. Both have a long history of drawing 10K plus. While neither are huge markets, they are at least mid-sized and can create somewhat of a buzz. The same can be said for Illinois State and MSU. SIU can draw well, despite being in a somewhat smaller market, they have a much longer history of success, and have a gazillion alums in the St. Louis market. What major market is packed with UNI alums? Loyola wouldn't draw large crowds, but you get a top 20 team in a market like Chicago, and yes, there will be some serious national attention.

I have nothing against UNI and I think Jacobson may well be the best X and O coach in the Valley, but the finger wiggling a couple of your fans do at the rest of the conference is a little old.

[havoc]

Names like Butler, St Louis and Dayton sound real nice now but at that time? Dayton was 500 or worse the last 80s and early 90s. Hell, they were 4-26 in 1992-93 and didn't win more than 7 games until 1997.
SLU won 5 games in 91-92, 12 games in 92-93
Buter won 18 and 21 games in 90 and 91 but that was sandwhich on both sides by years of sub .500
Playing the name game is a tricky way to retroactively make things sound different.

My mistake. There were two years with 6. Using the rankings on this site, the MCC was ranked 11, 17, 10, 14, and 13 UE's last 5 years. The MVC by comparison was 13, 13, 17, 13, and 15. No matter what the names look like today versus then, the MCC was very bit as strong, if not stronger than the MVC.

Marty is entering his 10th year...if you need to get to year 11 of a coach to see where the program is...well...it's not where you want it and that's not a good sign.

The last couple years have at least been respectable. Next year (and the year after more so if he makes it there) will tell if that was do to where Marty took the program or simply because of having 3 once in a decade type players at roughly the same time. I'm not sure how saying that is a bad thing. In my opinion, he's done just enough in conference with the resources he's had to make it difficult to fire him. He's not setting the world on fire, but he also hasn't been a dumpster fire.

and that was coming off a year UNI finished in the PIG and was at the end of a run where it was bad at UNI. The 11 years that UNI had been in the MVC before 03/04 UNI had finished with single digit wins 3 times and hadn't had 20 or more wins since 89-90. UNI probably had one of the 4 smallest budgets in the MVC at that point. At some point an athletic department needs to decide what they want to be and how to get there. UE needs to decide if what they've seen from Marty for 9 years now is who they want to be. If it's not then UE needs to figure out how to get to that level.

You had just said "UNI may have had a smaller budget until about 7 years ago, but they always played a stronger OOC and tried to swing above their weight." So now your are saying that's not true?

The next year they played a non-D1, Cincinnati, Loyola, UMKC, UWGB, Wagner, Longwood, Valpo, and Northwestern State. The next year it was Western Carolina, Western Michigan, Non-D1, Loyola, UMKC, Florida AM, Hawaii Pacific, and Dayton. Again, not a lot of schools from peer conferences. It's a decent schedule when you add Iowa and Iowa State, but take out 2 schools and add Purdue, Indiana, or Notre Dame to UE or Indiana State's schedule, and they start to look a whole heck of a lot better most years.

I'm not trying to diminish anything by bring up Iowa/Iowa State, but I think its very relevant when discussing OOC scheduling in this time period.

[unipanther99]

The illusions of grandeur that a couple of the UNI fans exhibit are getting old. The last line in this paragraph is dead on. After seeing how far SIU fell after the great run in the 2000's, what in the world do UNI fans think will keep them from a similar fate in a Post-Jacobson time? SIU has a long history of success, going back to at least the Walt Frazier days, had a great run and still saw it all crumble with one bad hire. I would also agree that WSU is probably the only one who is potentially safe with a bad hire, but look how hard it was for them to come back after Randy Smithson.

SIU's had some good runs, and their last one was REALLY good, but it lasted 6 years. I certainly think it's possible UNI could stumble in the future. But we've been either solid or good for over 12 years now, with two different coaches. The last time UNI was in a play-in game, Bruce Webber was still coaching SIU.

I think the stability has put UNI in about the best position possible to continue to be good, even if Jacobson were to leave. There are multiple current and former assistants who would be good candidates and understand the formula for success here. That said, I think Jake will be here for quite a while.

[WSUShox88]

How are we defining "good" or "solid"? By clearing a Missouri Valley Conference play-in round?

[unipanther99]

How are we defining "good" or "solid"? By clearing a Missouri Valley Conference play-in round?

In the 13 years since UNI's last PIG, they have 7 tournament appearances, and have never failed to finish in the top half of the conference, and have never had an overall losing record, averaging over 21 wins a year during that time. I think that alone qualifies as having at least a "solid" basketball program. Sprinkled throughout that run are some obvious examples of "good," and occasionally very good, all well known.

Do you have a different definition?

[WSUShox88]

Are you having a trouble comprehending what I asked? You said every year for the last 12 years UNI has been either "solid" or "good". I then asked if not being in a Missouri Valley Conference play-in game the bar for being "solid" or "good". You responded with a collective answer, not an individual answer. If you wanna go year-by-year, there are several results there where it would be questionable to call UNI "solid". There were several years where UNI finished .500 in the conference. There was a stretch where UNI didn't win a game in St. Louis for quite a while. In 2014, UNI finished with an overall record of 16-15. Would an outside observer call any of that "solid" or "good"? No they wouldn't.

Over the course of that period, UNI has had a solid program, but they haven't been solid every single year, unless by your definition, solid means clearing a Missouri Valley Conference play-in game. And if that was the case, I don't think anybody would be able to take you seriously, especially from an outside national perspective.

[unipanther99]

2013-14 was a disappointing year, but we still finished alone in 3rd place that year. If you have to finish runner-up to be considered solid, I think we have different definitions of that word.

[Wufan]

Are you having a trouble comprehending what I asked? You said every year for the last 12 years UNI has been either "solid" or "good". I then asked if not being in a Missouri Valley Conference play-in game the bar for being "solid" or "good". You responded with a collective answer, not an individual answer. If you wanna go year-by-year, there are several results there where it would be questionable to call UNI "solid". There were several years where UNI finished .500 in the conference. There was a stretch where UNI didn't win a game in St. Louis for quite a while. In 2014, UNI finished with an overall record of 16-15. Would an outside observer call any of that "solid" or "good"? No they wouldn't.

Over the course of that period, UNI has had a solid program, but they haven't been solid every single year, unless by your definition, solid means clearing a Missouri Valley Conference play-in game. And if that was the case, I don't think anybody would be able to take you seriously, especially from an outside national perspective.

Quit b1tching about semantics. Ben Jacobson has finished in the top half of the conference and been .500 or better EVERY (X10) year. Fourth or better for the last eight years. That's solid in my book.

Year, RPI

2016, 70
2015, 11
2014, 112
2013, 80
2012, 72
2011, 109
2010, 17
2009, 59
2008, 131
2007, 84

[WSUShox88]

You're getting too much into semantics unipanther99. 3rd in the Valley doesn't mean a whole lot on the national picture. That's why I keep asking for your definition of solid or good. You don't seem to have an answer for it. Is solid being on the NIT bubble? The NCAA bubble? Just winning more than you lose? Finishing 3rd in the Valley but ignoring the non-conference? I just want to know what "solid" means.

And thanks wufan for the butter treatment. Once again, I stated UNI has been a solid program. But UNI hasn't been solid every single year since their last play-in game, unless other people have different definitions to what "solid" means.

Geesh. It's not that hard to admit that UNI hasn't been perfect for the last decade.