Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Who will finish in 8th place during the 2016-17 MVC men's basketball season?

Poll ended at September 18th, 2016, 11:53 am

Bradley
33
57%
Illinois State
2
3%
Indiana State
3
5%
Loyola
12
21%
Missouri State
1
2%
Northern Iowa
1
2%
Southern Illinois
3
5%
Wichita State
3
5%
 
Total votes : 58

Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby Blers » September 19th, 2016, 12:02 pm

UE, I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't feel i'm getting ridiculed, it's just a disagreement. I like discussing about this stuff. I don't quite understand some people's Moser hate (though it seems to be not as bad as I perceived). I've just been more curious as to more detailed reasons why some think he should be gone.

Based on knocks:

Revolving door at post- He may use undersized players like Montel James, but he also had arguably the second best post player in the league, as well as turning Christian Thomas from a SF into a rock solid post threat. Furthermore i expect Aundre Jackson to be a load down low this year. And Cam Krutwig is a true center coming through next year. That said this is definitely a legitimate concern. Rajala and Kirby didn't provide much relief last year, and Ingram is serviceable down low but plays better at the 3.

Not utilizing talent- Devon Turk and Christian Thomas were both lower league talents who he maxed out. Turk in particular went from only a 3 pt threat to a complete player and defensive stud by his senior year. James also had measurable improvement throughout his two years

Conference play- I've mentioned the 6 pts = 4 losses for this season before but I also think it's important to mention that Doyle was injured for most of conference play during the CBI Year. He sprained his ankle badly at the start of the second half against Wichita State (we led by 5 at halftime); he tried to play through it but was shut down. Following his injury the team lost 6 of their next 8, but he was able to change the game plan somewhat and turned the keys over to Earl Peterson the team started to gel again and they finished conference play on a 5-3 run (Doyle came back in limited minutes for the last two games as well). Obviously any great team should be able to overcome, but Doyle was having a special season shooting 48% from the field and 42% from 3. I firmly believe if that team had a healthy Doyle they could have finished at least 12-6 in conference, and potentially earned an NIT bid with some quality non con wins over Texas Tech, Boise State, and Kent State.

My own knock is the offense can be hit or miss on any given game. Last year in particular the team had almost all of their guards shoot below their career percentages. There was an absurd number of open misses. I don't know what that's about, but i'm hoping the percentages even out this year; coach can't take the shots for them.

So if the ultimate knock on Moser is solely results based on his record without context (all of those excuses/caveats don't mean anything in the W/L record) than i'm totally satisfied and there's nothing i can do. It's ultimately a results based job and that's why so many fans were upset until their Arch Madness showing last year. I just think context is key and has earned him some slack in my mind (imagine if Tuttle or VanVleet went down for such extended periods over the last two years).

Sorry to steal what ultimately should have been a Bradley thread. You can also just copy and paste all of this stuff over if/when the Ramblers get selected to finish seventh in the next poll, ha!
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby LanceShock » September 19th, 2016, 1:01 pm

Blers wrote:UE, I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't feel i'm getting ridiculed, it's just a disagreement. I like discussing about this stuff. I don't quite understand some people's Moser hate (though it seems to be not as bad as I perceived). I've just been more curious as to more detailed reasons why some think he should be gone.

Based on knocks:

Revolving door at post- He may use undersized players like Montel James, but he also had arguably the second best post player in the league, as well as turning Christian Thomas from a SF into a rock solid post threat. Furthermore i expect Aundre Jackson to be a load down low this year. And Cam Krutwig is a true center coming through next year. That said this is definitely a legitimate concern. Rajala and Kirby didn't provide much relief last year, and Ingram is serviceable down low but plays better at the 3.

Not utilizing talent- Devon Turk and Christian Thomas were both lower league talents who he maxed out. Turk in particular went from only a 3 pt threat to a complete player and defensive stud by his senior year. James also had measurable improvement throughout his two years

Conference play- I've mentioned the 6 pts = 4 losses for this season before but I also think it's important to mention that Doyle was injured for most of conference play during the CBI Year. He sprained his ankle badly at the start of the second half against Wichita State (we led by 5 at halftime); he tried to play through it but was shut down. Following his injury the team lost 6 of their next 8, but he was able to change the game plan somewhat and turned the keys over to Earl Peterson the team started to gel again and they finished conference play on a 5-3 run (Doyle came back in limited minutes for the last two games as well). Obviously any great team should be able to overcome, but Doyle was having a special season shooting 48% from the field and 42% from 3. I firmly believe if that team had a healthy Doyle they could have finished at least 12-6 in conference, and potentially earned an NIT bid with some quality non con wins over Texas Tech, Boise State, and Kent State.

My own knock is the offense can be hit or miss on any given game. Last year in particular the team had almost all of their guards shoot below their career percentages. There was an absurd number of open misses. I don't know what that's about, but i'm hoping the percentages even out this year; coach can't take the shots for them.

So if the ultimate knock on Moser is solely results based on his record without context (all of those excuses/caveats don't mean anything in the W/L record) than i'm totally satisfied and there's nothing i can do. It's ultimately a results based job and that's why so many fans were upset until their Arch Madness showing last year. I just think context is key and has earned him some slack in my mind (imagine if Tuttle or VanVleet went down for such extended periods over the last two years).

Sorry to steal what ultimately should have been a Bradley thread. You can also just copy and paste all of this stuff over if/when the Ramblers get selected to finish seventh in the next poll, ha!

You left out Moser's tenure at Illinois State. One concern when Loyola came into the league was that Moser had already failed in the Valley once. While you look at last year as a setback, others see it as a confirmation that things aren't any different this time.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby Blers » September 19th, 2016, 2:22 pm

Ah, yes i did forget that. I acknowledged it in an earlier post however that I'm not too concerned with what he did a decade ago as a coach in his mid thirties. It's clear when you hear him talk his time with Rick Majerus at SLU had a profound impact. But it's still a fair question worth asking.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby UEACES80 » September 19th, 2016, 2:45 pm

It's Evansville, what do you expect.


Thanks for proving my point about the chippy comments.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby BirdsEyeView » September 19th, 2016, 3:31 pm

From an Illinois State Redbird perspective, I will say this....he did recruit rather well, including a superstar by the name of Osiris Eldridge. Unfortunately for Moser, he was fired after Osiris' Freshman year. So who knows how he would have done the next 3 years of "O's" career at ISUr.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby Wufan » September 19th, 2016, 5:20 pm

UEACES80 wrote:
It's Evansville, what do you expect.


Thanks for proving my point about the chippy comments.


I think that's just it. There were no negative comments about Evansville or Loyola, then you jumped in and said, 'you have to expect UNI and WSU fans to be dicks', for absolutely no reason. I called you on it, and instead of stating you were wrong, you deflected it. You CAUSED a negative comment, and you are right back in here to say 'I told you so'.

You are projecting your misgivings on others and you are the prickly poster you despise. I'm not saying that no one has ever gone over the top on UE, but when it's not happening you put yourself in a situation for it to occur...and then blame others. :Violin:
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby Aargh » September 19th, 2016, 9:23 pm

SubGod22 wrote:
Aargh wrote:Might want to be a little careful about wanting Moser replaced at Loyola. He's probably better than any coach they could hire. Coaches looking for stepping stone jobs can find better opportunities than trying to make Loyola significant in the Valley. MSU is probably seen as a more attractive opportunity.

So instead of taking a chance on getting better, they should continue with subpar performances and be happy with it? If that's the approach we added another Evansville.
We added the equivalent of Evansville with a 1,500 seat gym.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

Postby BradleyFan71 » September 20th, 2016, 5:12 pm

RoyalShock wrote:
Wufan wrote:Same goes for the ISUr and UNI votes. It's just silliness to predict any of the three as a Thursday team. That's not to say it isn't possible, but it shows either a lack of sensability or a lack of maturity.


fan - A shortened form of "fantatic", which is a person who, in certain emotional contexts, lacks sensibility and/or maturity.

- A direct quote from the RoyalShock Contemporary English Sportionary.

I'm not sure I would quote any reference that uses the word "fantatic".
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