MVCfans.com

BuBrave2006 wrote:

Wufan wrote:No concerns with Markis McDuffie, or Shaq Morris? Statistically, the two were quite similar to Hawkins/McIntosh from a scoring/rebounding perspective. You probably didn't see former top 100 recruit Landry Shamet, but he did average 9 points in 19 minutes last year for the three games he played.

Shaq Morris doesn't scare me at all until he gets more consistent. He has his good games and his bad games. If he figures it out, he could certainly All Valley, but until i see it every game (which may very well happen this year), I still have my doubts about him.

If previous consistency is the benchmark, then ILSU as a whole isnt scary at all.

Also, I agree with you regarding Shaq.

BuBrave2006 wrote:

Wufan wrote:No concerns with Markis McDuffie, or Shaq Morris? Statistically, the two were quite similar to Hawkins/McIntosh from a scoring/rebounding perspective. You probably didn't see former top 100 recruit Landry Shamet, but he did average 9 points in 19 minutes last year for the three games he played.

Shaq Morris doesn't scare me at all until he gets more consistent. He has his good games and his bad games. If he figures it out, he could certainly All Valley, but until i see it every game (which may very well happen this year), I still have my doubts about him.

Yep. Although, 'All Valley' is pretty worthless. Tekele Cotton wasn't even 'All Valley.'

WSUShox88 wrote:It's not like the WSU talent circle is spitting out the Washington Generals this year.

Illinois State is the team/program that has something to prove. Until something changes, why else wouldn't you expect more of the same?

I agree with this. I saw absolutely no indication last year that Muller's coaching of the offense had improved.

This year, more than any of the past few is more wide open than before. Your assumed top 3 situations are this...

WSU - hoping that Landry Shamet (running the show), McDuffie and Morris + their big recruiting class can overcome a loss of FVV, Baker, Wessel.
All other schools - banking that they can't.

ISUr - Always inconsistent. We have a good Sr. point guard this year that should show leadership to run the team and help them overcome past inconsistent play. Who knows?

UNI - Lost some players, kept some players. Uncertain with PG relying on a true Freshman or Lohaus.


Until we see all the products on the court, everyone is just posturing for their own team's benefit.

I do not think Shamet will play much PG.

Also, it's important to note that in 'all else being equal' with regard to figuring out how to get better or replace certain players, WSU is doing so from the perspective of a 4 game cushion. That's a significant point when some folks are already counting on everyone on their squad showing great improvement and everyone on WSU's squad not panning out. And I think it's enough to make folks 'posturing' that WSU is the favorite to be striking a pretty good pose.

I do agree that the race will be much tighter this year. I'd guess 14 wins might get it, though that makes things like ties much more likely.

Picked UNI here based on uncertainty at the pg position for them whereas ISU may have best pg in valley this year in 4 year starter Paris Lee. I hear what some of the uni posters are saying about their incoming guard but Not easy adjustment right away going from high school to college no matter how good they may be. So I gave ISU slight nod based on a little more experience at that key position.

Rollbird5 wrote:Picked UNI here based on uncertainty at the pg position for them whereas ISU may have best pg in valley this year in 4 year starter Paris Lee. I hear what some of the uni posters are saying about their incoming guard but Not easy adjustment right away going from high school to college no matter how good they may be. So I gave ISU slight nod based on a little more experience at that key position.

ISU has a lot more experience at that position, and I agree that could be key. The hype around McCloud may prove to be completely warranted, but it's a very tough gig for a true freshman PG to come into the Valley and run the show for 20+ mpg over 30 games. His ceiling may be higher than Lee's, but he probably isn't going to perform at that level over the 18 game league schedule in his freshman season.

I have no idea what WSU has at PG. Frankamp is, in my opinion, a very capable backup PG. Smith would be my guess as the eventual starter at that position, but who knows how well that process will go as he transitions from JuCo. I do take some solace in the fact that Marshall has had a run of exceptionally successful PGs, of which only FVV was a traditional 4-year player at WSU.

Cdizzle wrote:

Rollbird5 wrote:Picked UNI here based on uncertainty at the pg position for them whereas ISU may have best pg in valley this year in 4 year starter Paris Lee. I hear what some of the uni posters are saying about their incoming guard but Not easy adjustment right away going from high school to college no matter how good they may be. So I gave ISU slight nod based on a little more experience at that key position.

ISU has a lot more experience at that position, and I agree that could be key. The hype around McCloud may prove to be completely warranted, but it's a very tough gig for a true freshman PG to come into the Valley and run the show for 20+ mpg over 30 games. His ceiling may be higher than Lee's, but he probably isn't going to perform at that level over the 18 game league schedule in his freshman season.

I have no idea what WSU has at PG. Frankamp is, in my opinion, a very capable backup PG. Smith would be my guess as the eventual starter at that position, but who knows how well that process will go as he transitions from JuCo. I do take some solace in the fact that Marshall has had a run of exceptionally successful PGs, of which only FVV was a traditional 4-year player at WSU.

Marshall has also had some very good comments about Reaves. I don't expect him to be starting, but he is now practicing with the team after shoulder surgery and could work his way into some solid backup minutes this year while learning from a guy like Smith who Marshall has also complimented his ability to pick up the system quicker than expected. How that translates to actually running the team remains to be seen. If Reaves is capable of providing 10-15 minutes during conference play then we're in pretty good shape I think. Frankamp is capable of being a decent backup but it's not a natural position for him despite his size.

Along about February 18 or perhaps February 11, reality will set in.

BirdsEyeView wrote:This year, more than any of the past few is more wide open than before. Your assumed top 3 situations are this...

WSU - hoping that Landry Shamet (running the show), McDuffie and Morris + their big recruiting class can overcome a loss of FVV, Baker, Wessel.
All other schools - banking that they can't.

ISUr - Always inconsistent. We have a good Sr. point guard this year that should show leadership to run the team and help them overcome past inconsistent play. Who knows?

UNI - Lost some players, kept some players. Uncertain with PG relying on a true Freshman or Lohaus.


Until we see all the products on the court, everyone is just posturing for their own team's benefit.

This is a mostly fair take, but people are really dismissive of several WSU players. Certainly none of them were all-conference, but Zach Brown started 31 games and averaged 7 ppg in 19 minutes, while Rashard Kelly and Conner Frankamp have high ceilings and an opportunity to step out from behind the seniors.

When you look at the above players output per 40, it was quite similar to the Redbird "stars". As noted above, McDuffie/Morris = Hawkins/McIntosh, Kelly = Wills, Frankamp = Lee...Who are the Redbirds going to have to equal Shamet, Brown, and top 10 JUCO post Darral Willis?