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I do not think Shamet will play much PG.

Also, it's important to note that in 'all else being equal' with regard to figuring out how to get better or replace certain players, WSU is doing so from the perspective of a 4 game cushion. That's a significant point when some folks are already counting on everyone on their squad showing great improvement and everyone on WSU's squad not panning out. And I think it's enough to make folks 'posturing' that WSU is the favorite to be striking a pretty good pose.

I do agree that the race will be much tighter this year. I'd guess 14 wins might get it, though that makes things like ties much more likely.

Picked UNI here based on uncertainty at the pg position for them whereas ISU may have best pg in valley this year in 4 year starter Paris Lee. I hear what some of the uni posters are saying about their incoming guard but Not easy adjustment right away going from high school to college no matter how good they may be. So I gave ISU slight nod based on a little more experience at that key position.

Rollbird5 wrote:Picked UNI here based on uncertainty at the pg position for them whereas ISU may have best pg in valley this year in 4 year starter Paris Lee. I hear what some of the uni posters are saying about their incoming guard but Not easy adjustment right away going from high school to college no matter how good they may be. So I gave ISU slight nod based on a little more experience at that key position.

ISU has a lot more experience at that position, and I agree that could be key. The hype around McCloud may prove to be completely warranted, but it's a very tough gig for a true freshman PG to come into the Valley and run the show for 20+ mpg over 30 games. His ceiling may be higher than Lee's, but he probably isn't going to perform at that level over the 18 game league schedule in his freshman season.

I have no idea what WSU has at PG. Frankamp is, in my opinion, a very capable backup PG. Smith would be my guess as the eventual starter at that position, but who knows how well that process will go as he transitions from JuCo. I do take some solace in the fact that Marshall has had a run of exceptionally successful PGs, of which only FVV was a traditional 4-year player at WSU.

Cdizzle wrote:

Rollbird5 wrote:Picked UNI here based on uncertainty at the pg position for them whereas ISU may have best pg in valley this year in 4 year starter Paris Lee. I hear what some of the uni posters are saying about their incoming guard but Not easy adjustment right away going from high school to college no matter how good they may be. So I gave ISU slight nod based on a little more experience at that key position.

ISU has a lot more experience at that position, and I agree that could be key. The hype around McCloud may prove to be completely warranted, but it's a very tough gig for a true freshman PG to come into the Valley and run the show for 20+ mpg over 30 games. His ceiling may be higher than Lee's, but he probably isn't going to perform at that level over the 18 game league schedule in his freshman season.

I have no idea what WSU has at PG. Frankamp is, in my opinion, a very capable backup PG. Smith would be my guess as the eventual starter at that position, but who knows how well that process will go as he transitions from JuCo. I do take some solace in the fact that Marshall has had a run of exceptionally successful PGs, of which only FVV was a traditional 4-year player at WSU.

Marshall has also had some very good comments about Reaves. I don't expect him to be starting, but he is now practicing with the team after shoulder surgery and could work his way into some solid backup minutes this year while learning from a guy like Smith who Marshall has also complimented his ability to pick up the system quicker than expected. How that translates to actually running the team remains to be seen. If Reaves is capable of providing 10-15 minutes during conference play then we're in pretty good shape I think. Frankamp is capable of being a decent backup but it's not a natural position for him despite his size.

Along about February 18 or perhaps February 11, reality will set in.

BirdsEyeView wrote:This year, more than any of the past few is more wide open than before. Your assumed top 3 situations are this...

WSU - hoping that Landry Shamet (running the show), McDuffie and Morris + their big recruiting class can overcome a loss of FVV, Baker, Wessel.
All other schools - banking that they can't.

ISUr - Always inconsistent. We have a good Sr. point guard this year that should show leadership to run the team and help them overcome past inconsistent play. Who knows?

UNI - Lost some players, kept some players. Uncertain with PG relying on a true Freshman or Lohaus.


Until we see all the products on the court, everyone is just posturing for their own team's benefit.

This is a mostly fair take, but people are really dismissive of several WSU players. Certainly none of them were all-conference, but Zach Brown started 31 games and averaged 7 ppg in 19 minutes, while Rashard Kelly and Conner Frankamp have high ceilings and an opportunity to step out from behind the seniors.

When you look at the above players output per 40, it was quite similar to the Redbird "stars". As noted above, McDuffie/Morris = Hawkins/McIntosh, Kelly = Wills, Frankamp = Lee...Who are the Redbirds going to have to equal Shamet, Brown, and top 10 JUCO post Darral Willis?

Wufan wrote:

Red wrote:

WSUShox88 wrote:It's not like the WSU talent circle is spitting out the Washington Generals this year.

Illinois State is the team/program that has something to prove. Until something changes, why else wouldn't you expect more of the same?

I picked us here but I will say that the talent I saw on the court for WSU last year not named Baker or VanVleet doesn't scare me.

No concerns with Markis McDuffie, or Shaq Morris? Statistically, the two were quite similar to Hawkins/McIntosh from a scoring/rebounding perspective. You probably didn't see former top 100 recruit Landry Shamet, but he did average 9 points in 19 minutes last year for the three games he played.

As an opposing fan McDuffie is a big worry. I think it's possible he's the best player in the league this year as a sophomore. I also think Shamet is a stud. Both have had recent injuries though so that is a bit of a concern.

Shaq is a different story. He has huge potential but at times he appears so disinterested and often seems woefully out of shape. It's always possible he puts it all together this year but I wouldn't bet any money on it.

Wichita State is really hard to project. They have the most physically gifted roster in the league and I don't think it is remotely close. But they lack a dominant PG who is a leader and thus could struggle in the half court. If Marshall decides to play pressure/trap defense line to line for 40 minutes they could be devastating given their quickness, depth, length, athleticism and individual scoring ability. I don't think that is his nature as he prefers tough man to man half court defense coupled with fanatical rebounding. It will be an interesting year for the coach. NI will be the same as always and that is good but with no potential to be great. I think the Redbirds have some talent but will never be consistent.

wgslaw wrote: NI will be the same as always and that is good but with no potential to be great.

That's funny.

Team ranked in the top 10 last season,
Received top 25 votes last season...injury and illness caused a rough patch - like injury did for WSU to start the year and won 12 of final 14 games of the season once at full strength. Were 7-2 before the start of the injury bug with wins over #1 UNC and #5 Iowa State.

Wufan wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:This year, more than any of the past few is more wide open than before. Your assumed top 3 situations are this...

WSU - hoping that Landry Shamet (running the show), McDuffie and Morris + their big recruiting class can overcome a loss of FVV, Baker, Wessel.
All other schools - banking that they can't.

ISUr - Always inconsistent. We have a good Sr. point guard this year that should show leadership to run the team and help them overcome past inconsistent play. Who knows?

UNI - Lost some players, kept some players. Uncertain with PG relying on a true Freshman or Lohaus.


Until we see all the products on the court, everyone is just posturing for their own team's benefit.

This is a mostly fair take, but people are really dismissive of several WSU players. Certainly none of them were all-conference, but Zach Brown started 31 games and averaged 7 ppg in 19 minutes, while Rashard Kelly and Conner Frankamp have high ceilings and an opportunity to step out from behind the seniors.

When you look at the above players output per 40, it was quite similar to the Redbird "stars". As noted above, McDuffie/Morris = Hawkins/McIntosh, Kelly = Wills, Frankamp = Lee...Who are the Redbirds going to have to equal Shamet, Brown, and top 10 JUCO post Darral Willis?

Frankamp does not equal Lee. PG is the quarterback of basketball. That should be WSU's only main concern. FVV was your on court coach, leader, motivator and go-to guy last year. How do you replace his intangibles??

As you can see since I posted above, WSU fans are posturing, ISU fans posturing, UNI fans posturing for their own benefits. Nobody is fully realistic about the concerns of their own team.

WSU has a major question mark replacing FVV due to his intangibles, including overall toughness that spilled over to the rest of the team.