MVCfans.com

Intangibles from a pg are just as important.

FVV had them - big time

BirdsEyeView wrote:Intangibles from a pg are just as important.

FVV had them - big time

I agree on both points. But I don't see how it's particularly relevant when comparing Frankamp to Lee.

On the Frankamp vs Lee debate .. in my opinion, Frankamp has a higher ceiling than Lee, but Lee is the better PG right now. I've seen flashes of greatness from Frankamp .. but its just that Flashes, then mediocrity. Frankly, I don't want him running the point, I want him to do what he truly does best. That's to be a deep threat at all times. I want him to get back to his 49% from 3 that he had in High School (ok, not realistic, but to get close).

As far as replacing Baker/FVV. Its not going to happen right away, but Shamet and McDuffie have the talent/athleticism to be even better than those two if they can learn how to play the way Baker/FVV did. McDuffie is already closing one of the gaps that he needed to. He's not nearly as thin. He was 188 a year ago and hes up to 207 as of August.

BirdsEyeView wrote:ove, WSU fans are posturing, ISU fans posturing, UNI fans posturing for their own benefits. Nobody is fully realistic about the concerns of their own team.

I'm not sure any UNI fan has "postured". I'd say we are cautiously optimistic but understand that a combination of a true freshman, JUCO transfer and red-shirt freshman seeing most of the PG duties is scary. We also know that the ceiling for McCloud is higher than any PG we've ever had. We know that he's the second most skilled PG we've ever had show up on campus. The only one "better" would be Wes and that's comparing Wes at the end of his senior year to Juwan.

There's going to be growing pains but find those on social media that truly following UNI basketball. I don't think there has ever been a player that anyone will remember with his upside at UNI.

uniftw wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:ove, WSU fans are posturing, ISU fans posturing, UNI fans posturing for their own benefits. Nobody is fully realistic about the concerns of their own team.

I'm not sure any UNI fan has "postured". I'd say we are cautiously optimistic but understand that a combination of a true freshman, JUCO transfer and red-shirt freshman seeing most of the PG duties is scary. We also know that the ceiling for McCloud is higher than any PG we've ever had. We know that he's the second most skilled PG we've ever had show up on campus. The only one "better" would be Wes and that's comparing Wes at the end of his senior year to Juwan.

There's going to be growing pains but find those on social media that truly following UNI basketball. I don't think there has ever been a player that anyone will remember with his upside at UNI.

GodMcCloudGod?

Sorry, couldnt resist

Somebody had to do it.

Cdizzle wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:Intangibles from a pg are just as important.

FVV had them - big time

I agree on both points. But I don't see how it's particularly relevant when comparing Frankamp to Lee.

It's not really, just showing that going from FVV to Frankamp or whomever at point is more than just looking into a stat book and comparing his stats to other point guards in the league (ie - Lee).

A point guard must have leadership qualities, toughness qualities, basketball IQ and an overall competitiveness that spills over to their teammates.

FVV had all of those and it made his team way better (regardless of stats). Your Play Angry mantra was personified (not sure if that's the right word?) by FVV.

Do you have a replacement for those qualities beyond your "big time talent" players like McDuffie, Shamet, etc.? Only time will tell.

Again, I ask what was WSU like pre-FVV? Were they the trash like some think they'll be this year?

By the same token, what on earth have the current Illinois State lineup has done to warrant a 5 game improvement over WSU? Has Muller been doing off-season coaching workouts?

hot nuts wrote:Sports fans are a real insecure lot...always worried about what other fans think about their team.

You guys all think Bradley's gonna be good this year, right?

Please say yes...

BirdsEyeView wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:Intangibles from a pg are just as important.

FVV had them - big time

I agree on both points. But I don't see how it's particularly relevant when comparing Frankamp to Lee.

It's not really, just showing that going from FVV to Frankamp or whomever at point is more than just looking into a stat book and comparing his stats to other point guards in the league (ie - Lee).

A point guard must have leadership qualities, toughness qualities, basketball IQ and an overall competitiveness that spills over to their teammates.

FVV had all of those and it made his team way better (regardless of stats). Your Play Angry mantra was personified (not sure if that's the right word?) by FVV.

Do you have a replacement for those qualities beyond your "big time talent" players like McDuffie, Shamet, etc.? Only time will tell.

That would be fine. Except Lee hasn't exactly shown those qualities in a way that translated into team success for ISUr. So really, the stats are pretty much what we have to go on. Just throwing out that Lee is better than a new guy because the new guy is not FVV is a pretty weak argument.

Cdizzle wrote:

BirdsEyeView wrote:
It's not really, just showing that going from FVV to Frankamp or whomever at point is more than just looking into a stat book and comparing his stats to other point guards in the league (ie - Lee).

A point guard must have leadership qualities, toughness qualities, basketball IQ and an overall competitiveness that spills over to their teammates.

FVV had all of those and it made his team way better (regardless of stats). Your Play Angry mantra was personified (not sure if that's the right word?) by FVV.

Do you have a replacement for those qualities beyond your "big time talent" players like McDuffie, Shamet, etc.? Only time will tell.

That would be fine. Except Lee hasn't exactly shown those qualities in a way that translated into team success for ISUr. So really, the stats are pretty much what we have to go on. Just throwing out that Lee is better than a new guy because the new guy is not FVV is a pretty weak argument.

I agree, but most of my argument above was to show your concern at WSU (not ISUr with Lee). A devil's advocate to the WSU rainbows and butterflies point of view for this coming season.

I completely get the issues of ISUr....inconsistency! But, I wasn't referencing any of that above, except that stats don't show the true "losses" reflected from FVV graduating.