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Cdizzle wrote:

Redhawk wrote:Is it possible to clinch the POY award on a Tuesday night in early February?

Is it possible to clinch not being POY on a Saturday night in early February?

Yes...but I think they way Paris bounced back with an awesome performance in what many thought was a
"trap game" makes him the outright leader that will be hard to overtake.

Redhawk wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:

Redhawk wrote:Is it possible to clinch the POY award on a Tuesday night in early February?

Is it possible to clinch not being POY on a Saturday night in early February?

Yes...but I think they way Paris bounced back with an awesome performance in what many thought was a
"trap game" makes him the outright leader that will be hard to overtake.

Why? If you compare conference stats, someone like Landry Shamet stacks up very favorably against Lee.

I'm not anti-Lee, I just don't understand the notion that for some reason he has the award in the bag.

Cdizzle wrote:Why? If you compare conference stats, someone like Landry Shamet stacks up very favorably against Lee.

I'm not anti-Lee, I just don't understand the notion that for some reason he has the award in the bag.

It's not in the bag but if the award was only about comparing stats then FVV might not have won last year.

Redhawk wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:Why? If you compare conference stats, someone like Landry Shamet stacks up very favorably against Lee.

I'm not anti-Lee, I just don't understand the notion that for some reason he has the award in the bag.

It's not in the bag but if the award was only about comparing stats then FVV might not have won last year.

Agreed. Except FVV had the whole 4-game lead on the field thing going for him. Lee does not.

It gets more difficult to say "well Lee just makes the team go and they are 12-1" as some sort of defining comparative characteristic when one could say "well Shamet just makes the team go and they are 11-1."

I agree that it is not, and should not, be just about comparing stats. But at this point, in the comparison I've given, the head-to-head between Lee and Shamet is a wash at best. The raw stats are a wash at best. The conference-only stats favor Shamet. The advanced stats heavily favor Shamet. And the team performance is a wash, at best.

I'm not here advocating Shamet for POY. I'm just here saying "I'm not sure why folks think Lee is POY at this point."

Cdizzle wrote:

Redhawk wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:Why? If you compare conference stats, someone like Landry Shamet stacks up very favorably against Lee.

I'm not anti-Lee, I just don't understand the notion that for some reason he has the award in the bag.

It's not in the bag but if the award was only about comparing stats then FVV might not have won last year.

Agreed. Except FVV had the whole 4-game lead on the field thing going for him. Lee does not.

It gets more difficult to say "well Lee just makes the team go and they are 12-1" as some sort of defining comparative characteristic when one could say "well Shamet just makes the team go and they are 11-1."

I agree that it is not, and should not, be just about comparing stats. But at this point, in the comparison I've given, the head-to-head between Lee and Shamet is a wash at best. The raw stats are a wash at best. The conference-only stats favor Shamet. The advanced stats heavily favor Shamet. And the team performance is a wash, at best.

I'm not here advocating Shamet for POY. I'm just here saying "I'm not sure why folks think Lee is POY at this point."

Shamet is out of the running for POY ... not because he doesn't deserve to be in the conversation, but he's going to win FOY. There is no rule that says he can't win both (I don't think) but the Valley likes to spread it around. And realistically there are multiple people that deserve to be mentioned. There really isn't a dominant player like the last 3 years (though 2015 can be argued that there was another candidate that was equally as worthy).

It seems to me that this award has been weighted more and more with the thought of "where would they be without X player".

Who's most valuable to his team? Who causes the rest of the league the most problems? Who would you want the most starting a team for 1 year? Who is the senior that's owed it? Who has the best stats all year, or just in conference games?

And probably for voting, the most glaring factor, who's been talked about the most all season?

PLee had a great start going 10-0 and put him in the driver's seat. It's very difficult to move someone out of that spot, just like the Heisman voting, no matter the stats or results.

If I'm drafting for a pickup game, I'm getting McDuffie or McIntosh fast. Shamet really close to that.

Player missed the most? Paris Lee

Lots and lots of ways to look at it.

2livewu wrote:It seems to me that this award has been weighted more and more with the thought of "where would they be without X player".

Who's most valuable to his team? Who causes the rest of the league the most problems? Who would you want the most starting a team for 1 year? Who is the senior that's owed it? Who has the best stats all year, or just in conference games?

And probably for voting, the most glaring factor, who's been talked about the most all season?

PLee had a great start going 10-0 and put him in the driver's seat. It's very difficult to move someone out of that spot, just like the Heisman voting, no matter the stats or results.

If I'm drafting for a pickup game, I'm getting McDuffie or McIntosh fast. Shamet really close to that.

Player missed the most? Paris Lee

Lots and lots of ways to look at it.

Great assessment! I think Lee is most valuable to his team (but not the best player.) He will probably also
get a boost for Senior leadership and his defense.

Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

bleach wrote:Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

Yes he is a great player... but the team has an 11-12 record which eliminates him from the conversation!

Redhawk wrote:

bleach wrote:Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

Yes he is a great player... but the team has an 11-12 record which eliminates him from the conversation!

In general I've never understood why team record has any impact on the Most Outstanding Player award.

It's not titled "Best Player on Best Team" award.

It's supposed to* be for the player who had the most outstanding season.

Same thing with the MVP in other leagues. A guy like David Johnson had a MUCH bigger impact on his team this year vs a guy like Tom Brady but Brady was a QB on a great team (that would win at a very high level even without him) while DJ had one of the best seasons a RB has ever had in NFL history but because the team around him sucked he can't even be talked about.