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2livewu wrote:It seems to me that this award has been weighted more and more with the thought of "where would they be without X player".

Who's most valuable to his team? Who causes the rest of the league the most problems? Who would you want the most starting a team for 1 year? Who is the senior that's owed it? Who has the best stats all year, or just in conference games?

And probably for voting, the most glaring factor, who's been talked about the most all season?

PLee had a great start going 10-0 and put him in the driver's seat. It's very difficult to move someone out of that spot, just like the Heisman voting, no matter the stats or results.

If I'm drafting for a pickup game, I'm getting McDuffie or McIntosh fast. Shamet really close to that.

Player missed the most? Paris Lee

Lots and lots of ways to look at it.

Great assessment! I think Lee is most valuable to his team (but not the best player.) He will probably also
get a boost for Senior leadership and his defense.

Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

bleach wrote:Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

Yes he is a great player... but the team has an 11-12 record which eliminates him from the conversation!

Redhawk wrote:

bleach wrote:Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

Yes he is a great player... but the team has an 11-12 record which eliminates him from the conversation!

In general I've never understood why team record has any impact on the Most Outstanding Player award.

It's not titled "Best Player on Best Team" award.

It's supposed to* be for the player who had the most outstanding season.

Same thing with the MVP in other leagues. A guy like David Johnson had a MUCH bigger impact on his team this year vs a guy like Tom Brady but Brady was a QB on a great team (that would win at a very high level even without him) while DJ had one of the best seasons a RB has ever had in NFL history but because the team around him sucked he can't even be talked about.

uniftw wrote:

Redhawk wrote:

bleach wrote:Jeremy Morgan is the most valuable to his team. If you go there you can't just use 2 players.

Yes he is a great player... but the team has an 11-12 record which eliminates him from the conversation!

In general I've never understood why team record has any impact on the Most Outstanding Player award.

It's not titled "Best Player on Best Team" award.

It's supposed to* be for the player who had the most outstanding season.

Same thing with the MVP in other leagues. A guy like David Johnson had a MUCH bigger impact on his team this year vs a guy like Tom Brady but Brady was a QB on a great team (that would win at a very high level even without him) while DJ had one of the best seasons a RB has ever had in NFL history but because the team around him sucked he can't even be talked about.

Basketball is different than football. Basketball has 5 positions, football has 22+ positions. A truly outstanding player should be able to elevate his team to not be a horrendous team. Morgan has failed at that.

uniftw wrote:In general I've never understood why team record has any impact on the Most Outstanding Player award.

It's not titled "Best Player on Best Team" award.

It's supposed to* be for the player who had the most outstanding season.

Same thing with the MVP in other leagues. A guy like David Johnson had a MUCH bigger impact on his team this year vs a guy like Tom Brady but Brady was a QB on a great team (that would win at a very high level even without him) while DJ had one of the best seasons a RB has ever had in NFL history but because the team around him sucked he can't even be talked about.

I kind of get your point but I think there's an argument to be made that if Team A is better, perhaps a lot better than Team B, but Team B has a player with great stats etc, one could say Team A by definition has better more valuable players. I realize that's an over simplification.

But still, you aren't really trying to say David Johnson is better and or more valuable than Tom Brady are you? Even for a UNI fan that's whacked.

To this point it seems pretty clear the best players are on Illinois State and WSU, by a fairly wide margin. If the POY doesn't come from one of those 2 programs, barring a substantial change, I'd be disappointed.

Stickboy46 wrote:
Basketball is different than football. Basketball has 5 positions, football has 22+ positions. A truly outstanding player should be able to elevate his team to not be a horrendous team. Morgan has failed at that.

I'm not advocating for Morgan to get POY, but to dismiss him because the team struggled is silly.

Read the board for the last 2 months. You'd believe UNI was Morgan and a bunch of dwarfs that run a 15 second 40 yard dash with a vertical that would make it to the top of the Cedar Falls phonebook.

If that's the case than Morgan carrying UNI like he has is quite a feat compared to talent rich rosters like WSU and ISUr.

I'd also agree that if it's a guy that is simply putting a ton of points up, you are absolutely right. If it's a guy doing things that hasn't been done in 2 decades for a complete stat line it's worth at least looking at.

In the MVC he is
5th in scoring
9th in rebounds
3rd in defensive rebounds
3rd in blocks
2nd in steals (.1 per game behind Lee)
5th in FT %
3rd in minutes played

That's not bad for a 6'5 wing guard.
8th in 3PM


Yes, it happens to be "my guy" this year, but I feel this way no matter the sport or who it is. Giving it to "the best player on the best team" is an easy way out of making people angry that thought beyond "He's good and his team is good so he must be the best"

uniftw wrote:

Stickboy46 wrote:
Basketball is different than football. Basketball has 5 positions, football has 22+ positions. A truly outstanding player should be able to elevate his team to not be a horrendous team. Morgan has failed at that.

I'm not advocating for Morgan to get POY, but to dismiss him because the team struggled is silly.

Read the board for the last 2 months. You'd believe UNI was Morgan and a bunch of dwarfs that run a 15 second 40 yard dash with a vertical that would make it to the top of the Cedar Falls phonebook.

If that's the case than Morgan carrying UNI like he has is quite a feat compared to talent rich rosters like WSU and ISUr.

I'd also agree that if it's a guy that is simply putting a ton of points up, you are absolutely right. If it's a guy doing things that hasn't been done in 2 decades for a complete stat line it's worth at least looking at.

In the MVC he is
5th in scoring
9th in rebounds
3rd in defensive rebounds
3rd in blocks
2nd in steals (.1 per game behind Lee)
5th in FT %
3rd in minutes played

That's not bad for a 6'5 wing guard.
8th in 3PM


Yes, it happens to be "my guy" this year, but I feel this way no matter the sport or who it is. Giving it to "the best player on the best team" is an easy way out of making people angry that thought beyond "He's good and his team is good so he must be the best"

Does this mean Ballentine and Colt Ryan should have dominated the award because they put up sick numbers on bad teams that relied heavily on them for any sort of chance? Never mind the fact that much of their stats were often put up in garbage time when they didn't matter.

Nobody is saying Morgan isn't a fine player. And he still will be a 1st team guy. But considering the season, I don't think he really gets a sniff of POY.

I'm not saying stats don't matter, but there are other things that have to be considered and the success of the team, especially in basketball, plays a part in that.

SubGod22 wrote:

uniftw wrote:

Stickboy46 wrote:
Basketball is different than football. Basketball has 5 positions, football has 22+ positions. A truly outstanding player should be able to elevate his team to not be a horrendous team. Morgan has failed at that.

I'm not advocating for Morgan to get POY, but to dismiss him because the team struggled is silly.

Read the board for the last 2 months. You'd believe UNI was Morgan and a bunch of dwarfs that run a 15 second 40 yard dash with a vertical that would make it to the top of the Cedar Falls phonebook.

If that's the case than Morgan carrying UNI like he has is quite a feat compared to talent rich rosters like WSU and ISUr.

I'd also agree that if it's a guy that is simply putting a ton of points up, you are absolutely right. If it's a guy doing things that hasn't been done in 2 decades for a complete stat line it's worth at least looking at.

In the MVC he is
5th in scoring
9th in rebounds
3rd in defensive rebounds
3rd in blocks
2nd in steals (.1 per game behind Lee)
5th in FT %
3rd in minutes played

That's not bad for a 6'5 wing guard.
8th in 3PM


Yes, it happens to be "my guy" this year, but I feel this way no matter the sport or who it is. Giving it to "the best player on the best team" is an easy way out of making people angry that thought beyond "He's good and his team is good so he must be the best"

Does this mean Ballentine and Colt Ryan should have dominated the award because they put up sick numbers on bad teams that relied heavily on them for any sort of chance? Never mind the fact that much of their stats were often put up in garbage time when they didn't matter.

Nobody is saying Morgan isn't a fine player. And he still will be a 1st team guy. But considering the season, I don't think he really gets a sniff of POY.

I'm not saying stats don't matter, but there are other things that have to be considered and the success of the team, especially in basketball, plays a part in that.

I clarified that simply scoring a bunch of points doesn't get any merit in my eyes.

It would have to be someone who stuffs the stat sheet better than anyone else. I'm not saying Morgan should be POY. I'm saying dismissing a player that has a year like Morgan simply because of his teams lack of success is silly

Wufan wrote:Pick a player not on your team

I pick Johnson of MSU.

He seems to be the best kept secret in the Mo Valley.