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sivert wrote:

Stickboy46 wrote:I'm pretty sure Marshall's system isn't a cake-walk either.

Yeah, no doubt. That wasn't really my point.

Then I'm not sure what your point was. If both of the teams run hard systems, one struggles with it, the other doesn't. How does that do anything to say that the coach that struggles is the better coach?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the point of your original post?

uniftw wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:

uniftw wrote:
His twitter handle is @CoachJake_UNI

Right. That's fine. So apparently it's cool to call him whatever people would like. Including using an 'e'.

One is an actual name he goes by. The other is a misspelling of his name.

Why are we so worked up over this?
Here is how I would rank the coaches in the Missoura Vally Confrenc:

1. Greg Marshal
2. Ben Jacobsen
3. Dan Mueller
4. Gregg Lanseng
5. Barry Hinsen
6. Porter Mosur
7. Bryan Wardall
8. Marti Simmuns
9. Geoff Ruder
10. Paul Lusck

The order is not that important, however at least I spelled everyone's names right.

Stickboy46 wrote:Then I'm not sure what your point was. If both of the teams run hard systems, one struggles with it, the other doesn't. How does that do anything to say that the coach that struggles is the better coach?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the point of your original post?

These things are relative, but Ben has coached some very good defensive teams with less athletic players. Is that disputed? I'm not saying that WSU doesn't put out a great defense, so don't think I am.
I'm saying that for Ben to get what he gets out of his players, they must learn to execute his system as a team. And that relatively speaking, this high level of defensive success is more dependent on team system execution than individual athleticism. Thus, for UNI in particular, newcomers simply can't do it until they learn it.

sivert wrote:

Stickboy46 wrote:Then I'm not sure what your point was. If both of the teams run hard systems, one struggles with it, the other doesn't. How does that do anything to say that the coach that struggles is the better coach?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the point of your original post?

These things are relative, but Ben has coached some very good defensive teams with less athletic players. Is that disputed? I'm not saying that WSU doesn't put out a great defense, so don't think I am.
I'm saying that for Ben to get what he gets out of his players, they must learn to execute his system as a team. And that relatively speaking, this high level of defensive success is more dependent on team system execution than individual athleticism. Thus, for UNI in particular, newcomers simply can't do it until they learn it.

"Less athletic players" is a result of recruiting which is part of how you judge a coach. Don't get me wrong, he's done pretty good with what he has, but it's not elite. Heck, I went back to the start of Marshalls Career at WSU and only 2 years (2008,2010) has UNI fielded a better defense than WSU per KenPom. I think everyone can agree he's Top 2 in the league based on historically success. He just hasn't ever made his team elite. That's mainly IMO due to recruiting.

Assuming Marshall is 1, does being #2 ahead of the other coaches in the Valley really mean that much?

Horn28Clem30 wrote:Assuming Marshall is 1, does being #2 ahead of the other coaches in the Valley really mean that much?

When #1 is among the Top 15 in the country, I think it can still mean something.

Illinois State could end up being a Top 15 team next year and still lose the league by 2 games. That doesn't mean they aren't a good team.

Another thing to add is that there is a definite money disparity between UNI and WSU. Yes, Marshall winning has helped in that, but WSU had a lot of money before he came and that makes a difference in where and who you can recruit. Look at UNI's roster and there are 6 players from outside Iowa and only 2 not from a neighboring state-one of those is a walk-on from Brazil who has appeared in 8 games. Contrast that to WSU that only has 3 players from Kansas and 3 more from immediate neighboring states, though Arkansas is close for Reaves.

The systems each runs fit in with the players they get/can get. I am glad that Jake hasn't tried the Lowery approach following success by trying to go out and just get the highest star rankings he can find. He continues to look for players that fit his system-though the overall talent ability is on an upward arc. Marshall plays a faster pace and looks for more 'athletic' players. He also makes them fit his system, if they don't want to play defense as well as offense, they tend to ride the pine. Marshall has a nice system where he can bring high level high school players and then supplement with jucos. Jake goes with 4/5 year players almost exclusively. Again, each system has worked for the school, and expectations, surrounding them.

Now to a different question. How nervous are WSU fans about the NC State opening, especially if the lack of strength in the Valley causes WSU to either be left out or seeded poorly in March?

Considering he's already turned it down once, id put my worry on a scale of 1 to 10 at about a 0.

TheObserver wrote:Considering he's already turned it down once, id put my worry on a scale of 1 to 10 at about a 0.

Exactly! Now in 2 years, if the state of the Valley doesn't improve, or they aren't gone...then i'll worry. Right now w/ the ages of his kids, and all other things considered, I'm not sweating it near like a few years ago.

TheObserver wrote:Considering he's already turned it down once, id put my worry on a scale of 1 to 10 at about a 0.

Not only did he turn it down. It turned it down when he was making less than half of what he is making right now.

Add in that it's not a truly elite job, Maggie will be a Senior next year, His team next year will most likely be a Top 15 team ... I don't think this is the year or the opportunity for him.

If Indiana opens up though .. I'll be concerned. I think Crean gets a pass this year because of all the injuries, but that could line it up perfect for after next year.