If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Oral Roberts had 14 consecutive winning seasons from 2002-2015. Yeah their last two seasons haven't been great and they are going to have a new coach and probably be rebuilding for a couple of years, but they definitely have potential to be good in the MVC and to bring the conference up. I'd much rather have a team join the conference that has had a history of winning, rather than bring in a team that finished 4th in the Horizon League their first year of being D1 and got lucky that all the good teams lost in the first round of the HL tournament.

Oral Roberts is the obvious 12th team in my opinion (with Murray State being #11). Murray State has had a winning season 34 of the past 36 seasons, so anyone not wanting them clearly isn't using their head. And before anyone claims that ORU's and Murray State's success was because they played in poor conferences just let me say that 8 of the 10 teams last year in the MVC were Summit and OVC level. None of our schools are where they should be. It's best to bring in schools with winning traditions and actual fanbases that have the potential to bring the league up.

Very accurate post.

Baseball? ORU's 18 tourney appearances since '98.

Hoops? ORU's 3 straight tourney's 06-08. ORU was selected as an at-large in 2012 - until Andrew Nicholson and St Bonaventure caught fire for the A10 autobid knocking ORU out an hour before the selection show. MVC can't pass on a program that's actually proven an at-large resume this decade. Plus they've won at Kansas.

Budget? ORU's $2.74M would rank 5th (.01 from 4th) in the Valley.

Market? Tulsa would be MVC's #2 market. MVC has been successful in Tulsa before. Tulsa is also closer to MoSt than WSU was - which places ORU even slightly more within the footprint than WSU. Also 6/6 public/private split.

Attendance? ORU has dipped during their few recent lean seasons.
But how does ORU draw when they're winning?
Take a look at their Saturday games down the stretch of 2012.
9,005 vs Oakland (1/21/12)
6,850 vs UMKC (1/28/12)
8,617 vs Western Illinois (2/11/12)
7,745 vs Akron (2/18/12)



People need to push aside politics and a whackjob who died 10 years ago (ORU's athletic boosters tripled in the decade since his death). This is midmajor hoops (and baseball). Do you want the most reliable midmajor program in the vicinity not named Murray St or not? ORU has been there, done that. They have the bones for a sustainable midmajor.


I bet being in the Valley (as opposed to geographic outlier in Summit or bottom 5 league in Southland) would help them out a lot. ORU/Valpo rivalry from Mid-Con. Midwestern schools. Familiar names for market from Tulsa days.

[Mikovio]

It looks like the end of the Scott Sutton era isn't going to end well.

You know that era ended right? Because the new president kneecapped him. No tattoos and religious tests are now imposed on recruits.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/o ... 77a3d.html

Before Wilson became the ORU president in 2013, Sutton had a 14-season record of 278-177 with three Summit League Tournament titles and three NCAA Tournament appearances.

Since Wilson assumed leadership of the university — and, sources say, since he instituted recruiting policies that diminished the ORU basketball program’s horsepower — Sutton’s four-season record amounted to 58-70.

The 2016-17 Golden Eagles were 8-22 and failed to qualify for the conference tournament.

With Wilson as president, sources indicate, Sutton was instructed to recruit athletes who already were professed Christians and to evaluate prospects on their physical abilities, their intellect, their social history and whether they are spiritually alive.

Before Wilson, the ORU template seemed to center on the recruitment of solid student-athletes who might or might not already have been Christians. Those who weren’t became immersed in a Christian culture that resulted in numerous commitments to Jesus Christ.

These are not the actions of an administration committed to winning basketball games.

[VUGrad1314]

For the record, their administration denies that faith tests and recruiting restrictions were ever imposed on Sutton; but usually in those situations, where there's smoke, there's fire. Their denials may well mean nothing. What bothers me more is that Sutton, for all his loyalty to the program and everything he had been through with them for 18 seasons, allegedly found out about his firing the same time we all did from ESPN. In that case, if that is true, I want nothing to do with a school led by people who lack the honesty, decency, and internal fortitude to deal directly with their employees in matters of termination--particularly when the matter concerns a longstanding, formerly successful coach who by all accounts has been scandal-free and a credit to the university during his time there.

[uniftw]

It looks like the end of the Scott Sutton era isn't going to end well.

You know that era ended right? Because the new president kneecapped him. No tattoos and religious tests are now imposed on recruits.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/o ... 77a3d.html

Before Wilson became the ORU president in 2013, Sutton had a 14-season record of 278-177 with three Summit League Tournament titles and three NCAA Tournament appearances.

Since Wilson assumed leadership of the university — and, sources say, since he instituted recruiting policies that diminished the ORU basketball program’s horsepower — Sutton’s four-season record amounted to 58-70.

The 2016-17 Golden Eagles were 8-22 and failed to qualify for the conference tournament.

With Wilson as president, sources indicate, Sutton was instructed to recruit athletes who already were professed Christians and to evaluate prospects on their physical abilities, their intellect, their social history and whether they are spiritually alive.

Before Wilson, the ORU template seemed to center on the recruitment of solid student-athletes who might or might not already have been Christians. Those who weren’t became immersed in a Christian culture that resulted in numerous commitments to Jesus Christ.

These are not the actions of an administration committed to winning basketball games.

Interesting. I did some Googling of photos. Sure enough, I don't see a tatoo on any of them that I searched. Quite a coincidence if not an enforced rule

Sounds like the Roberts family may be gone, but the same type of leadership and hypocrisy still exists.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

This photo is from Oral Roberts @ Creighton last December. The ORU player has both arms inked in tattoos.
http://www.readingeagle.com/storyimage/ ... RCRadius=5

What probably happened is some members of Tulsa media had an ax to grind with ORU (politics, treatment of Sutton) and ran with a false rumor.

[Mikovio]

Apparently the tattoo ban was later lifted.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... ar-BBzLh8a

A report from local TV station KTOV meshes with the one from Haisten, adding that Wilson also told Sutton he could not recruit players with tattoos — a ban that was later lifted — and that incoming players must pass a “faith exam.”

There are multiple sources claimed so I tend to believe the reports. At least kooky Oral and son had the good sense to leave the basketball program alone.

[VUGrad1314]

This photo is from Oral Roberts @ Creighton last December. The ORU player has both arms inked in tattoos.
http://www.readingeagle.com/storyimage/ ... RCRadius=5

What probably happened is some members of Tulsa media had an ax to grind with ORU (politics, treatment of Sutton) and ran with a false rumor.

Then how do you explain ORU's precipitous fall beyond their financial issues? I can't believe a coach like Sutton suddenly forgot how to coach And even if this was all Sutton's fault , don't you find the way his ouster was handled a little unsettling? You just don't do that to longtime employees especially in your school's flagship sport that he helped build up . I'm troubled by it and I'm sure the rest of the MVC is too.

[rally]

Oral Roberts had 14 consecutive winning seasons from 2002-2015. Yeah their last two seasons haven't been great and they are going to have a new coach and probably be rebuilding for a couple of years, but they definitely have potential to be good in the MVC and to bring the conference up. I'd much rather have a team join the conference that has had a history of winning, rather than bring in a team that finished 4th in the Horizon League their first year of being D1 and got lucky that all the good teams lost in the first round of the HL tournament.

Oral Roberts is the obvious 12th team in my opinion (with Murray State being #11). Murray State has had a winning season 34 of the past 36 seasons, so anyone not wanting them clearly isn't using their head. And before anyone claims that ORU's and Murray State's success was because they played in poor conferences just let me say that 8 of the 10 teams last year in the MVC were Summit and OVC level. None of our schools are where they should be. It's best to bring in schools with winning traditions and actual fanbases that have the potential to bring the league up.

It's about projecting the future. We're not adding these teams today. I don't see either as worth expanding currently. NKU has been trending up. Their new to D1 and the commitment is there. Potential is there, if the results follow, I see them becoming a worthy candidate for expansion.

I just can't say the same about ORU. They have been trending down and there are questions about their commitment to their athletic programs. Nothing jumps off the page to me. They been passed over multiple times and I just don't see that changing.

[mvfcfan]

So here's the options on the table I would like the MVC to consider in order of what I would like to see happen and then I'll explain the steps the conference needs to take to make each one happen.

Option 1= Murray State and St Louis
Our conference office is in St Louis, so this shouldn't be difficult. An MVC representative and occasionally Elgin himself needs to walk (or take a taxi) everyday Monday through Friday and go to the Billikens office and try to convince them to come to the league. Make SLU file a restraining order against the MVC if necessary. We don't have to add anyone at all, so let's think big here. There are a lot of pros for SLU to join the league so let's sell them.

Option 2= Murray State plus X (Oral Roberts, Northern Kentucky, UW-Milwaukee)
If we can't find a 12th team that meets our standards then skip to option 3. I think Oral Roberts would be a good add. They give MSU a travel partner and keep the public-private split even at 6-6 and have had previous success. Northern Kentucky has potential, but they are very new to D1 and I think they are a very risky add. Milwaukee could be a good 12. I'm not really sure there are too many good "12" options out there. Oral Roberts is my favorite #12 and it's not even close. I could live with NKU and UWM.

Option 3= North Dakota State and South Dakota State
Yes this isn't a football league, but let's be very serious. The MVC and the MVFC are basically one in the same. They are run out of the same office and the key words here are "Missouri Valley". NDSU since joining the league has won 5 consecutive national championships and they sell out their 18K seat dome every game. SDSU averages around 15K themselves. There is definite support up there for these two schools.

Now let's talk basketball. You have to go back to 2011 to find a team not named NDSU or SDSU that made the NCAA Tournament by winning the Summit League. The Summit League typically gets seeded poorly which makes it extremely difficult to win in the NCAA tournament, but when NDSU was a 12 seed guess what? They upset Oklahoma. Tons of potential in the Dakotas and they are worth looking at.

Option 4= UW-Milwaukee and UW-Green Bay
Not the greatest option out there, but hear me out. Both schools do focus on basketball and both play in nice arenas. They also both play in larger market areas, so they are at least worth looking at. Also gives the MVC a rivalry game. Keep in mind that this is a fourth option and that if we are going to add UWM at all we should probably do it in Option 2.

Option 5= Go to 14, add all 4 Dakota schools
I prefer option 3 to this, but adding all the Dakota schools makes the conference more stable and the MVC would practically own 2 states at that point. It expands our footprint and overall makes our league better. South Dakota just won the Summit League regular season title, and North Dakota just won the Big Sky and made the NCAA tournament. UND and USD also both have a lot of potential. I don't think the privates would ever go for this though. We'd be lucky if they agreed to Option 3.

Option 6= Stay at 10
If none of the above options makes anyone happy, then let's just stay at 10.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

I think we should do a mix. Both dakota state schools and Murray State plus nku.