Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

[Blers]

Sub I'm not sure if you lost a bet putting the Ramblers or what given how you soured so quickly. I realize it's outlandish to compare the two; but Marshall and Mosers first to seasons of valley play are identical. Marshall took a leap forward to 12-6 the next season, and Moser didn't, though as mentioned he was 6 pts away from 11-7. That said both showed growth over the years, and growth takes time. Resources at Loyola are limited compared to most other schools, and Mosers a hometown guy. He was also hired as a horizon league coach and was able to flip horizon league talent into something respectable(Milton is the only horizon recruit remaining).

No one was happy or satisfied with last year. Fans were pissed and some called for him to be better; but the fact of the matter is this was a team that was irrelevant in the Horizon league for the better part of 30 years; and he's built a team that fans are now beginning to hold accountable. So I give him two more years to see what happens. This program didn't have a single brick laid when he started. It's unrealistic to think it'd be fully built by someone else now; and a complete tear down at this point would just put us back at the bottom when at a of right now we're taking a risk in believing he can take the next step. And if in two years nothing changes or they regress nightly this year then I was wrong, we'll all be angry and a change will need to be made.

[AngryShock]

Are 500 fans enough to hold a coach accountable?

Comparing 3G who was a proven winner and Moser who is a proven non winner is f'ing laughable

[UEACES80]

Blers I agree with your post but get used to it on here if you are not WSU or UNI you will be ridiculed and insulted for having an opinion by a few of the posters on here.

[Wufan]

Blers I agree with your post but get used to it on here if you are not WSU or UNI you will be ridiculed and insulted for having an opinion by a few of the posters on here.

Wow. Care to rehash all the insults ridicule in this post? Could it not be that is a normal difference of opinion that is being discussed congenially?

[UEACES80]

Wow. Care to rehash all the insults ridicule in this post? Could it not be that is a normal difference of opinion that is being discussed congenially?

That would be nice to see more congenial comments on here rather than the chippy comments. I don't feel the need to rehash because if it isn't obvious already I wouldn't convince a doubter.

[SubGod22]

Blers I agree with your post but get used to it on here if you are not WSU or UNI you will be ridiculed and insulted for having an opinion by a few of the posters on here.

Wow. Care to rehash all the insults ridicule in this post? Could it not be that is a normal difference of opinion that is being discussed congenially?

It's Evansville, what do you expect.

I have a pretty good relationship I believe with most Rambler fans. And I've said from the beginning that I think they'd be better off without Moser. Apparently it will take a couple more years before Loyola fans are on board with that.

[Blers]

UE, I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't feel i'm getting ridiculed, it's just a disagreement. I like discussing about this stuff. I don't quite understand some people's Moser hate (though it seems to be not as bad as I perceived). I've just been more curious as to more detailed reasons why some think he should be gone.

Based on knocks:

Revolving door at post- He may use undersized players like Montel James, but he also had arguably the second best post player in the league, as well as turning Christian Thomas from a SF into a rock solid post threat. Furthermore i expect Aundre Jackson to be a load down low this year. And Cam Krutwig is a true center coming through next year. That said this is definitely a legitimate concern. Rajala and Kirby didn't provide much relief last year, and Ingram is serviceable down low but plays better at the 3.

Not utilizing talent- Devon Turk and Christian Thomas were both lower league talents who he maxed out. Turk in particular went from only a 3 pt threat to a complete player and defensive stud by his senior year. James also had measurable improvement throughout his two years

Conference play- I've mentioned the 6 pts = 4 losses for this season before but I also think it's important to mention that Doyle was injured for most of conference play during the CBI Year. He sprained his ankle badly at the start of the second half against Wichita State (we led by 5 at halftime); he tried to play through it but was shut down. Following his injury the team lost 6 of their next 8, but he was able to change the game plan somewhat and turned the keys over to Earl Peterson the team started to gel again and they finished conference play on a 5-3 run (Doyle came back in limited minutes for the last two games as well). Obviously any great team should be able to overcome, but Doyle was having a special season shooting 48% from the field and 42% from 3. I firmly believe if that team had a healthy Doyle they could have finished at least 12-6 in conference, and potentially earned an NIT bid with some quality non con wins over Texas Tech, Boise State, and Kent State.

My own knock is the offense can be hit or miss on any given game. Last year in particular the team had almost all of their guards shoot below their career percentages. There was an absurd number of open misses. I don't know what that's about, but i'm hoping the percentages even out this year; coach can't take the shots for them.

So if the ultimate knock on Moser is solely results based on his record without context (all of those excuses/caveats don't mean anything in the W/L record) than i'm totally satisfied and there's nothing i can do. It's ultimately a results based job and that's why so many fans were upset until their Arch Madness showing last year. I just think context is key and has earned him some slack in my mind (imagine if Tuttle or VanVleet went down for such extended periods over the last two years).

Sorry to steal what ultimately should have been a Bradley thread. You can also just copy and paste all of this stuff over if/when the Ramblers get selected to finish seventh in the next poll, ha!

[LanceShock]

UE, I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't feel i'm getting ridiculed, it's just a disagreement. I like discussing about this stuff. I don't quite understand some people's Moser hate (though it seems to be not as bad as I perceived). I've just been more curious as to more detailed reasons why some think he should be gone.

Based on knocks:

Revolving door at post- He may use undersized players like Montel James, but he also had arguably the second best post player in the league, as well as turning Christian Thomas from a SF into a rock solid post threat. Furthermore i expect Aundre Jackson to be a load down low this year. And Cam Krutwig is a true center coming through next year. That said this is definitely a legitimate concern. Rajala and Kirby didn't provide much relief last year, and Ingram is serviceable down low but plays better at the 3.

Not utilizing talent- Devon Turk and Christian Thomas were both lower league talents who he maxed out. Turk in particular went from only a 3 pt threat to a complete player and defensive stud by his senior year. James also had measurable improvement throughout his two years

Conference play- I've mentioned the 6 pts = 4 losses for this season before but I also think it's important to mention that Doyle was injured for most of conference play during the CBI Year. He sprained his ankle badly at the start of the second half against Wichita State (we led by 5 at halftime); he tried to play through it but was shut down. Following his injury the team lost 6 of their next 8, but he was able to change the game plan somewhat and turned the keys over to Earl Peterson the team started to gel again and they finished conference play on a 5-3 run (Doyle came back in limited minutes for the last two games as well). Obviously any great team should be able to overcome, but Doyle was having a special season shooting 48% from the field and 42% from 3. I firmly believe if that team had a healthy Doyle they could have finished at least 12-6 in conference, and potentially earned an NIT bid with some quality non con wins over Texas Tech, Boise State, and Kent State.

My own knock is the offense can be hit or miss on any given game. Last year in particular the team had almost all of their guards shoot below their career percentages. There was an absurd number of open misses. I don't know what that's about, but i'm hoping the percentages even out this year; coach can't take the shots for them.

So if the ultimate knock on Moser is solely results based on his record without context (all of those excuses/caveats don't mean anything in the W/L record) than i'm totally satisfied and there's nothing i can do. It's ultimately a results based job and that's why so many fans were upset until their Arch Madness showing last year. I just think context is key and has earned him some slack in my mind (imagine if Tuttle or VanVleet went down for such extended periods over the last two years).

Sorry to steal what ultimately should have been a Bradley thread. You can also just copy and paste all of this stuff over if/when the Ramblers get selected to finish seventh in the next poll, ha!

You left out Moser's tenure at Illinois State. One concern when Loyola came into the league was that Moser had already failed in the Valley once. While you look at last year as a setback, others see it as a confirmation that things aren't any different this time.

[Blers]

Ah, yes i did forget that. I acknowledged it in an earlier post however that I'm not too concerned with what he did a decade ago as a coach in his mid thirties. It's clear when you hear him talk his time with Rick Majerus at SLU had a profound impact. But it's still a fair question worth asking.

[UEACES80]

It's Evansville, what do you expect.

Thanks for proving my point about the chippy comments.